(The tables above referred to are as follows): Recapitulation of airport section activity relative to Work Projects Administratio civil airport projects 1 Federal funds shown, in all of the four columns, are Presidential limitations of projects. 2 Disapproval of projects involves review of plans and estimates and transmittal to sponsors of reasons fo disapproval and suggestions for revision. Total number of airports improved and total number of projects involved do not agree since there are often more than one project operated per airport. Active during first half of fiscal year 1940. As of March 15, 1940. • As of January 1, 1940. COST OF FILL AT GRAVELLY POINT Mr. LUDLOW. What was the estimated cost of the filling in at Gravelly Point? Mr. HESTER. I will have to supply those figures in the record. (The information is as follows:) The estimated cost of filling the site (19,500,000 cubic yards hydraulic fill and 2,165,000 cubic yards dry excavation and fill) is approximately $4,500,000. NUMBER OF AIRPORTS IN UNITED STATES Mr. WOODRUM. How many airports have you now as compared with a year ago, roughly? Mr. HESTER. Do you mean the number of airports in the United States? Mr. WOODRUM. The number of airports in the United States, and the number assisted by Federal funds. Mr. HESTER. We will have to supply those figures in the record. (The information is as follows:) Number of airports in the United States as of Jan. 1 While the above figures show a decrease of 67 airports between January 1, 1935 and 1940, the decline can be accounted for by the fact that many landing areas listed as airports in 1935 were so grossly unsafe and inadequate as to scareely justify designation as airports, and among the various reasons for their abandonment are: (1) The impossibility or impracticability of expansion to adequate dimensions; (2) the refusal of many State and Federal aviation officials to sanction or approve the use of and the continued listing of these hazardous fields; (3) the reluctance of the flying public to continue to use such fields; (4) the inability of securing Federal or State funds for improvements to these unsuitable sites; and (5) the increasing establishment of adequate airports throughout the country. The total number of airports on which Federal funds have been expended is 654, representing 586 municipal, 48 military, 16 emergency fields, and 4 Coast Guard fields. COMPARISON OF WASHINGTON AIRPORT WITH NORTH BEACH AIRPORT, N. Y. Mr. WOODRUM. What will be the comparison of that airport, as to size, accommodations, and convenience with the 45 million dollar North Beach airport in New York? Mr. HESTER. It is rather difficult to draw comparisons. I would rather put it this way, that in the planning of this airport we have had the benefit and experience of the best advice obtainable in the construction of airports. Mr. WOODRUM. You think it will be as fine as any airport anywhere? Mr. HESTER. We certainly do. REASON FOR SELECTING GRAVELLY POINT SITE FOR WASHINGTON AIRPORT Mr. LUDLOW. What was the reason for filling in that site when there is so large an amount of vacant ground around Washington? What engineering reason was there for filling in that site? Mr. HESTER. In the building of an airport you must have the location free from obstructions and hazards, and we thought that was the best way to get such a site. Mr. LUDLOW. And such a site could not have been obtained, in your judgment, without that filling in? Mr. HESTER. Not that close to Washington. Mr. LAMBERTSON. What was the reason why the territory west of that site, between the tracks and the hill, was not used for that airport? Mr. HESTER. That was for the same reason, because of the obstructions. Mr. LAMBERTSON. There is nothing like that there at all, as I recall. Mr. HESTER. There is some rolling country there. In coming in to an airport you have to have it free from obstructions, in order to land, particularly in bad weather. Mr. LUDLOW. How many persons will be employed under the estimate of $175,000? Mr. HESTER. Out of the $175,000 estimate we would have 57 employees. Mr. LUDLOW. That is administrative personnel? Mr. HESTER. Yes, sir; that is administrative and engineering personnel. ANTICIPATED AIRPORT PROGRAM FOR 1941 Mr. WOODRUM. Will you furnish us with a break-down of the anticipated airport program of W. P. A. next year, with the amount that will be required? Mr. FRIZZELL. We have not been able to get that. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How do you determine what your estimate is if you have not got that? Mr. FRIZZELL. Because the projects already under way would require the services of these people for the next year even if no further allotments are made. Under a W. P. A. allotment, the sponsors contract to bring the product to reasonable completion in the event allotments cease. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Surely the amount of this request must depend to some extent on the appropriation for 1941. Mr. FRIZZELL. We can estimate the number but we cannot give you a break-down. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How can you estimate if you do not know what the program is? Mr. FRIZZELL. By past experience. Mr. HESTER. We will try to get the statement you want. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You got one from the W. P. A. Mr. FRIZZELL. No, sir; we only know that W. P. A. looks with favor on airport projects because of the high percentage of labor involved. RELATION OF ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES TO PROGRAM Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Does not your administrative expenditure vary according to whether there are 2 fields or 50? Mr. FRIZZELL. To some degree, yes, sir, although the present tendency is toward a smaller number of larger airports, and the larger the airport the more comprehensive are the plans we have to assist in developing and finally pass upon. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I am trying to find out how you determine that you need this amount of money unless you have information as to what is in contemplation by the W. P. A. Mr. HESTER. It is based on past experience and comparative figures as well as the fact that if no further W. P. A. allottments are made our work in readjusting products now partially completed would be very substantial. For 1938 the Federal expenditures amounted to approximately 28 million dollars and the sponsor's expenditures to approximately 10 million dollars. For 1939 the Federal expenditures were approximately 41 million dollars and the sponsors' expenditures approximately 21 million dollars. The amount estimated for fiscal year 1940 for Federal expenditures is something over 29 million dollars, and the amount for sponsors' expenditures approximately 6 million dollars. Mr. WOODRUM. Why such a drop in the sponsor's contribution? Mr. HESTER. That is a matter controlled by the W. P. A. Mr. WOODRUM. The figures you gave, as I caught them, do show a considerable drop in the sponsor's contribution. Mr. TABER. Will you give me those figures again? Mr. HESTER. Starting with the figures for 1938, Federal expenditures, $28,552,648. Mr. TABER. And the sponsor's contribution? Mr. HESTER. The sponsor's contribution, $10,201,530. Mr. O'NEAL. That is P. W. A. and W. P. A. Mr. HESTER. No, that is W. P. A. Mr. TABER. And for 1939? Mr. HESTER. 1939 would be $41,767,733. Mr. TABER. And the sponsor's contribution? Mr. HESTER. $21,447,059. Then, for 1940- Mr. HESTER. 1940 is estimated, based on the figures to date$29,092,922. And the sponsor's contribution is $6,044,217. Mr. TABER. Now, does your present program anticipate a very much smaller expenditure on the part of W. P. A. in 1941? Mr. HESTER. No; it depends entirely upon the amount of money Congress appropriates for W. P. A. Mr. TABER. If the estimate that is carried in the budget is approved by Congress, how much do you expect to have to spendthat is, how much do you expect will be spent on airports? Mr. HESTER. Do you mean by W. P. A. Mr. TABER. Yes. Mr. HESTER. I could not say. Mr. TABER. If you have not any idea on that, how can you tell anything about the $175,000, without knowing that? Mr. HESTER. We have explained that we need $175,000 even if you did not make any further appropriations to W. P. A., in order to complete the present projects that have been approved and authorized by W. P. A. Mr. TABER. You mean you would need $175,000 if we did not appropriate one dollar for W. P. A? Mr. HESTER. That is right-we would need $175,000 if you did not appropriate anything for W. P. A. STATUS OF PERSONS TO BE EMPLOYED UNDER ESTIMATE Mr. LUDLOW. You gave us awhile ago the number of persons to be employed under the $175,000 estimate: How many of those, if any, are doing regular work, and not emergency work? Mr. STANTON. Those are normally engaged on the engineering investigation and checking of those W. P. A. project applications. Mr. HESTER. I think the Congressman means, do any of them do permanent work. Mr. LUDLOW. Do any of the W. P. A. employees that are estimated for do regular work? Mr. STANTON. No; they are assigned to this work to check on W. P. A. project applications. Incidentally they are C. A. A. personnel and not W. P. A. Mr. LUDLOW. They are not connected with your regular work of civil aeronautics? Mr. STANTON. No. However, it should be noted that investigation of airport-construction projects involving expenditures of Federal funds has by law become a regular function of the C. A. A. TRAVEL EXPENSES Mr. O'NEAL. I would like to ask about this travel item. In 1940 you had $45,000 for emergency relief travel, and for 1941 you are estimating $39,000. How do they travel? Do they travel by train, or by plane? Mr. HESTER. They use the train and they use planes, too, where it does not exceed the cost of train transportation. Only in very special cases are they permitted to travel by plane at excess cost. Mr. O'NEAL. Have you any idea what that figure is? Mr. HESTER. You mean the excess over the railroads? Mr. O'NEAL. No; the amount per man per day? Mr. HESTER. Not at the moment. Mr. O'NEAL. How did you arrive at the figure of $39,000? I will put the question that way. Mr. STANTON. We arrived at that by comparison of what it cost us in previous years, and the number of men that would be engaged in travel. Mr. O'NEAL. How much does that figure per man per year; how would you figure that, in making up this estimate? Mr. STANTON. We would, of course, have the records of what we paid our men for reimbursement for travel expenses during the period of the past year, if they worked for us in the year past. Mr. O'NEAL. Then I will ask you this: How many men did you have engaged in that work in the past year, and how much did they draw for travel allowance? Mr. HESTER. We have seven regional offices throughout the United States, and have airport personnel stationed in those regional offices. Mr. O'NEAL. On a travel status? Mr. HESTER. The regional office is their headquarters, but they work out of the regions to the various municipalities. Let us give you an itemized break-down for the record, in answer to your question. Mr. O'NEAL. Yes; put in the record an itemized break-down on travel. (The information is as follows:) TRAVEL EXPENSES The amount of $39,038 for travel was computed on the basis of 19 field employees traveling for 12 months at the rate of $160 per month and 5 departmental employees traveling at the rate of $42.63 per month for 12 months. It is emphasized that the 19 field men are at present requiring $185 per month for travel expenses in efficiently discharging their duties in connection with the airportdevelopment program. If only $160 per month is allowed as this budget request provides, the travel of these men will necessarily have to be curtailed proportionately. Mr. WOODRUM. Is there anything else, gentlemen? REASON FOR SUBMITTING REQUEST WITH RELIEF ESTIMATES Mr. TABER. There are two sets of green sheets here, that is, there is one relating to personal services and another to expenditures. The one shows $223,117 and the other $109,581. Now, do I understand that the total of those two figures is the total expenditure for this particular set-up and that that includes the $175,000 that you hope to get here and the $147,000 you got in the regular bill? Mr. FRIZZELL. That is correct, sir. Mr. TABER. Is that right? Mr. FRIZZELL. Yes, sir. Mr. TABER. Then why did not you submit the whole thing to the regular committee? Mr. FRIZZELL. We did. We submitted it to the Bureau of the Budget. Mr. HESTER. We always do that, but the Budget tells us, with respect to W. P. A. work, that we should get our administrative expenses out of the W. P. A. bill. |