sippi and also in the State of Louisiana, the State of Arkansas, the State of Missouri, and the States of Kentucky and Illinois.

Without flood control there would be no growth in the valley.

In other words, it would be land we would have to give back to the Indians, as the old saying goes.

A lot of people refer to it as pork barrel. There is nothing pork barrel about flood-control legislation in our opinion, when we are paying back more than what you are putting into it, or the equivalent of what you are putting into it. That could not be classified as a gift. It is not a gift.

After the flood of 1927, you will recall, Senator Ellender, the proof before the Committee of the House which Congressman Reed was chairman at that time, disclosed that the local interests had spent something like $292 million trying to protect themselves without any federal aid whatsoever.

DRAINAGE AREA OF MISSISSIPPI RIVER

Then it was demonstrated they were not able to take care of themselves, that we were not able to take care of the drainage from 31 States, or 41 percent of the entire drainage area of the United States. That is when the Federal Government, under the Flood Control Act of May 15, 1928, stepped in and assumed the cost of building these levees.

Now that plan was adopted in 1928. It was designed by the Corps of Engineers and it was to be carried into execution by the Corps of Engineers.

At this point I would like to say that we in the valley are most happy indeed that the Congress, in its wisdom, saw fit to turn this work over to the Corps of Engineers of the United States Army. They have done a swell job. To some extent we do not think they deserve the unjust criticism that the people are trying to thrust upon them at this time. They have been sincere. They have done a good job and we want them to stay on.

AMOUNT REQUESTED

For many years our association, as you know, Senator Ellender, you have attended some of these meetings in which we advocated by resolution $100 million a year.

Our reason for asking that $100 million was to complete the project. We felt if we could get $100 million a year for the lower Mississippi Valley, we would be able to complete it within a period of 7 to 8 years. But with the appropriations under the Budget Bureau now of $60,020,000, we take the position that we have been cut, if you will pardon the expression, to the bone. That is the least amount that the Corps of Engineers can carry on their work efficiently with. That is what we want in the Government-efficiency.

We have the equipment there that we could use. They are set up with an administrative body. They have civilian engineers on their staff that are thoroughly familiar with the project. They know how to do the work.

In other words, we could spend $25 to $30 million more than the fiscal budget of $60,020,000 if we had the money.

In flood control there are many factors. The principal ones are levees, revetments, reservoirs, floodways, and, last but not least, the maintenance.

For the information of this committee, as I said a while ago, we started this program in 1928, which has been some many years ago. Of course, the bill has been amended and modified from time to time. Authorizations have been increased. There are 1,599 miles of main stem levees on the east and west bank of the river extending from Cape Girardeau to the Gulf of Mexico.

LEVEE SYSTEM

In all of that period of time, we have been only able to complete to grade and section 1,250 miles of the main stem levees, leaving 349 miles which is below grade and section this very day. Those levees that are below grade and section constitute the weak links in our levee chain system. They should be brought up to grade and section.

If those levees are not brought up to grade and section, and we should have a major flood, we are liable to have all kinds of trouble. In those valleys, for instance, take the levee of what is called the upper Yazoo, right out of Memphis on the west bank, they have something like 50 or 60 miles of Mississippi River levees there on the Mississippi side that are below grade and section.

A breach there where they are not brought up to grade and section would flood millions of acres of land and would destroy towns.

CITIES UNDER FLOOD PERIL

The cities of Greenwood, Leland, Cleveland, Clarksdale, because they are downstream. Any breach in the levees anywhere would flood that entire area from Memphis to Vicksburg.

Senator ELLENDER. How many feet deficient in grade section is it? This is the 349-mile stretch.

Mr. BURKE. That would vary. That would depend upon the topographical grade of your land. I know I could not answer it, but they are below the 1941 grade and section, and should be completed.

BUDGET ALLOCATION FOR LEVEE CONSTRUCTION

The point I was trying to make is that out of the budget estimat of $60,020,000, only $3,300,000 was set aside to bring those levees up to grade and section."

According to those figures and if the appropriations from year to year continue like they are where we only would get $3,300,000, it would take 23 more years to bring those levees up to grade and section. Senator CORDON. Does anybody know anything about the extent to which they lack standard dimensions and grade and section? Mr. BURKE. You mean the expense of bringing them up? Senator CORDON. No; how much are they below in feet and inches? Mr. BURKE. I say that would depend on the topography of the land, I think.

Senator CORDON. That would be one of the elements in determining this. Has it been determined?

Mr. BURKE. I presume it has been determined by the Corps of Engineers.

Senator CORDON. You do not have that information?

Mr. BURKE. No.

Senator CORDON. Mr. Chairman, I hope it goes into the record so that we can determine whether this is a grave situation, or one that just happens to be somewhat below the ideal. It could be the latter and not particularly dangerous.

Senator ELLENDER. Maybe General Chorpening could shed some light on that.

General CHORPENING. Yes, sir. I do not have here the exact amount that the levees are below grade, but generally the below-grade is not a great amount, probably not over 4 feet any place, but the greatest deficiency in the levees is the section.

Our experience prior to the time that the present section and grade was established indicated that we needed a greater section to have safe levees.

Senator CORDON. By section, do you mean width and contents? General CHORPENING. Yes, sir. In other words, a levee, after all, is only earth. We learned we needed more section in the levee to have a safe levee. That is of more vital concern than a small deficiency in grade.

LEVEE CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Senator CORDON. I understand the total is 349 miles. Could you bring to this committee something showing how many miles, or so many cubic yards, if that is the unit of measurement this is below section, or whatever other measurements you want to use, starting with the nearest of perfection and going down to the whole 349 miles so that we can see just what the situation is, and do the same thing with reference to grade or nearness of the top of the levee to standard? General CHORPENING. We have complete details and will be glad to furnish them for the use of the committee.

Senator ELLENDER. Could you give us the location of those spots? General CHORPENING. Yes, sir.

(The material referred to follows:)

LEVEE GRADES

Senator ELLENDER. Also, General, of what use is it to build the grade, say, just on one side of a river? I understand across the river you may have a levee that is according to grade and on the opposite side one that is 4 feet under, so that the people on one side the river are pretty well protected.

A lot of money has been spent there, but it makes the system useless insofar as the people on the opposite bank are concerned.

I understand in Mississippi the grades there were always 2 or 3 feet higher than right across the river in Louisiana. We got the water and Mississippi did not. That caused quite a bit of distraction among the folks in Louisiana. I wondered why people were so well protected on the other side of the river.

If the river did rise up normally, we got the water and our neighbors on the other side were protected by virtue of the fact that they were able to get someone to be more persuasive in Congress than we were and got the desired results in having better levees built to give them effective protection.

Senator YOUNG. If these levees are built up to grade what assurance do we have that it would take care of your flood situation in the future? Mr. BURKE. We have every reason in the world to believe that, because when those levees are brought to grade and section, as I understand, they will then, according to the best information that we can obtain from the Corps of Engineers, take care of a project flood which is about 25 percent, 20 to 25 percent, more than the volume of water that went down the Mississippi during the flood of 1927, the greatest flood we ever had.

EFFECTIVENESS OF DAMS

Senator YOUNG. Would that be with the larger dams in the Missouri and other places that are being constructed now, or would you need more dams in the upper reaches to prevent floods? Mr. BURKE. I am not competent to speak on that. Of course, we are not opposed to dams. We are in favor of anything that will just keep the water off of us.

Senator YOUNG. I have often heard this levee issue discussed; and some think that, even though you build these levees, future floods will not be prevented.

I am wondering if this alone would do it.

Mr. BURKE. We have to have the other. We have reservoirs in the valley itself. We have one on the St. Francis, and we have four on the Yazoo in Mississippi. They are an integral part of the floodcontrol project in the lower valley. Any reservoir constructed that holds that water off of us in Louisiana and in Arkansas and Mississippi, we welcome it.

Senator ROBERTSON. Mr. Chairman, I have been interested in the statement of the witness. I just want to say that personally I think it is most unfortunate that funds that are uregntly needed and could be so wisely spent in developing our domestic economy come in conflict with funds that we are asked to spend for national defense.

In connection with a little talk I plan to make next week at a breakfast club to which Senator Young and I belong, I decided to