I just do not believe that you can hope to have an unlimited authority for administrative expenses.

(The information referred to appears on pp. 95-96.)

Senator MCCLELLAN. Let me ask this: Is it your intention, General, to bring the civil functions of the Corps of Engineers into the same status as the Bureau of Reclamation?

General PICK. No, sir. All I asked for was to have this limitation taken off of my office.

Senator MCCLELLAN. That is your office, not the whole force. Now, they have a limitation there, as I understand it on the whole set up.

Are you willing to come within that same category, under the same treatment as the Bureau of Reclamation?

General PICK. I do not think so, sir, because we close out offices and establish new offices from time to time.

Senator MCCLELLAN. You could do that very well. That would not prevent you from doing that.

General PICK. That would put a restriction on our field offices, too. Senator CORDON. That is right. You would have a total figure, a ceiling on the amount of appropriated funds which you could use for administrative services in the Corps of Engineers.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Throughout.

Senator CORDON. Throughout.

Senator MCCLELLAN. There is no restriction on any particular field office.

Senator CORDON. None at all. You can apply it as you will, but you cannot increase it over the dollar amount of the limitation. General PICK. Our work, sir, is all tied to projects.

Senator CORDON. So is that of the Bureau of Reclamation.
General PICK. I think ours is a little more so.

Perhaps I am not clear on that.

Chairman McKELLAR. We will go into it and see what can be done. Senator MCCLELLAN. What I was getting at a while ago is that you have to keep these things on comparatively the same treatment; that is all. I was not opposing the necessary increase to provide you with the services you need.

Chairman MCKELLAR. The General is bringing this matter before the committee, and that is very proper and right. I think we could manage it in some way that would be satisfactory to him and satisfactory to the committee. I am quite sure of that.

General PICK. I have no thought of increasing the force.

Senator MCCLELLAN. But you want latitude where you use the force without increasing the cost of operations, do you not? General PICK. That is right, sir.

NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS

General PICK. I have just the summary, Mr. Chairman.

The budget estimate before you provides for the minimum rate of progress consistent with sound construction methods and coordinated timing of the various features of the individual projects. In my opinion, the six new starts provided for in this budget are sufficiently urgent that they should be started at this time.

In that connection, Mr. Chairman, I would like again to call to the attention of the committee the very important work at Tuttle Creek in the Kansas River Basin, which is the key to the control of those floods which created such destruction in the Kansas River Valley last year.

Chairman McKELLAR. I am glad you feel that way, because I have substantially told those folks out there that I felt it ought to be done, and that it would be done at this session of the Congress.

General PICK. Our justification sheets covering the requests for funds for each individual project have been submitted to the committee. My staff and I will be pleased to answer questions which the members of the committee may have.

Brig. Gen. C. H. Chorpening, Assistant Chief of Engineers for Civil works, and other members of my staff are prepared to present in detail the estimates for both river and harbor and flood-control projects.

FLOOD CONTROL PROJECTS FOR DEFENSE AREAS

Senator MCCLELLAN. May I ask you this, General:

I see some of these flood control projects, one in North Kansas, at Topeka, Kans.; Cape Girardeau, Mo., which is a flood control project, and Tuttle Creek, which is also flood control.

There is no power included in that, is there?

General PICK. No, sir.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Does that also apply to the Hartwell Reservoir, Georgia and South Carolina?

General PICK. That is a power project with some flood control. Senator MCCLELLAN. That is power for defense in that area there, is it?

General PICK. Yes, sir.

Senator MCCLELLAN. And that comes in the Flood Control Act, does it not?

General PICK. Yes, sir. It was authorized in the Flood Control Act.

Senator MCCLELLAN. What I was getting at is this: You do have some three or four projects here that are primarily flood control, new starts, and they are not then necessarily defense projects, are they? They are not identified primarily with defense projects, are they?

General PICK. Under the criterion under which we are working on the defense program, sir, they would come in under protecting areas producing food or for the protection of industrial areas like the Kansas City, and for the protection of transportation lines.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Well, they are protected projects, just like any other flood-control projects, except that they are in critical areas from the standpoint of defense.

General PICK. We think that these come within the criteria which the Congress adopted the year before last as the criteria for the determination of new projects.

Chairman MCKELLAR. IS Tuttle Creek proposition to be a multiplepurpose dam?

General PICK. No, sir. There is not enough water there, sir. Senator MCCLELLAN. What I was trying to get at is this: We have this power, and the power is needed and there is a shortage of power.

We go a long way toward appropriating for power projects that will aid the defense effort. But when you get down to flood control, of course, in many areas there is a threat of floods, but where you can connect such projects, as in the Kansas Citys area, with a number of defense projects, I mean defense plants that need protection, that, of course, places the emphasis on the defense aspects.

I am not criticizing you. I was just trying to understand how this criteria works. I mean, where do we draw the line as between one flood-control project and another?

General PICK. Well, sir, the North Topeka project is the area which was all under water, where there is a railroad yard-those railroad yards were put out of commission, and where we lost a railroad bridge across the river.

Senator MCCLELLAN. I am not opposing the project, sir; I think we ought to develop for the record the emphasis on the defense aspects rather than just general flood control.

General PICK. I think you are right. I think it ought to be tested under the criteria we are now working under.

Senator MCCLELLAN. I am not saying that food and fiber is also not necessary, but certainly we cannot go out here and say that we have to construct every flood control project from the standpoint of food and fiber.

But when you couple that with a defense plant area that must keep going in this defense program, then you add some emphasis to it, and you get it some priority for a flood control project that does not havepower in it.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Are there any other questions, gentlemen?
If not, we are very much obliged to you.

I understand you have another engagement, General?
General PICK. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have.

Chairman MCKELLAR. We might go ahead with the other gentlemen who are here.

General PICK. Thank you, gentlemen.

Chairman McKELLAR. We are very much obliged to you.

General Chorpening, have you anything to say?

General CHORPENING. Mr. Chairman, I have nothing to add to General Pick's general statement. I am here to answer specific questions that the committee may have on individual projects, or to proceed as you wish with the hearing.

Chairman MCKELLAR. All right, gentlemen, are there any questions?

Senator ELLENDER. General Chorpening, when General Pick was on the stand, I was anxious to find out whether you have provided sufficient funds to complete the Morganza floodway project.

General CHORPENING. We have detailed information in our justification sheets, Senator, on all parts of the Mississippi River and tributaries request for funds.

We will have General Feringa come up to testify on that, as we always have, before this committee, and to defend those projects in detail.

Now, I can give the committee a general answer to general questions, but we did presume that the committee would want General Feringa here in person.

Chairman MCKELLAR. Is the work proceeding satisfactorily at Memphis?

General CHORPENING. Yes, sir.

Senator CORDON. Now, General, will the Corps have for us the usual large abstracts showing the relationship between these requested appropriations and last year's appropriation, and the total amount needed to complete the project, and that sort of thing?

General CHORPENING. That is being prepared, Senator.

Senator ELLENDER. Will your abstracts cover river and harbors as well as flood control projects?

General CHORPENING. Yes sir.

Senator ECTON. Mr. Chairman, may I ask General Chorpening a question?

Chairman MCKELLAR. Yes, indeed.

PERSONNEL

Senator ECTON. Can you give us some indication, General, with reference to the projects that you were working on last year, to what extent they are behind schedule now on account of the lack of sufficient personnel?

General CHORPENING. Generally our program is up to date. There may be one or two that have been delayed due to lack of personnel. Chairman MCKELLAR. You have just worked harder?

General CHORPENING. We have just worked harder. If you are still thinging about our previous discussion, sir, as General Pick explained, we have to get the job done. And to get it done during this past year that I have occupied this job, I have worked many of my people many, many hours of overtime, and I have brought people in from the field on temporary duty to get the work done.

Now, that reverberates back through the field. Undoubtedly somebody back there has had to work overtime. But we get the job done in some fashion, although not as efficiently as we think it should be done.

And sometimes at greater cost than we should have expended to get that job done.

Does that answer your question?

Senator ECTON. Yes.

In other words, you believe that if you had additional personnel in your administrative offices you could do a more efficient job and save money while you are doing it?

General CHORPENING. Yes, sir.

Obviously, when we bring people in from the field we try to bring in good people. But when they come into my office, they are not thoroughly acquainted with how we operate, and so they work for 2 or 3 or 4 weeks at lower efficiency than they would if they were permanent employees.

We are paying them $9 per day every day that they are here, and we are paying their travel to Washington and return in addition to their salary.

Senator CORDON. I would like to see a figure, General, that would be an estimate of the total administrative cost of the Corps of Engineers in Washington and in its several divisions and district offices.

I can see where that sort of appropriation would give you a flexibility that you now do not have and perhaps might well result in increased efficiency in that you might by a slight reduction in the field and a transfer as between field offices, where the same general practices. prevail, make up for any emergency or local need.

You could have an adequate force here trained in your own procedures and techniques; that is, in the Washington office. General CHORPENING. That is what we are striving for.

STRATEGIC MATERIALS

Senator CORDON. Now, General, what has been the result of the year's work so far as it might have been influenced by lack of strategic materials? Has that slowed you up? I particularly have reference to steel.

General CHORPENING. On some projects.

Senator CORDON. I am familiar, as you know, with one. dig up a little information on that.

We can

General CHORPENING. On some projects it has been a real battle to secure the critical materials required to keep those projects on schedule. In a few instances we have had to reschedule somewhat, although not as much as it appeared for a while we might have to, because of the efforts made by our field offices and my office here, and others who are interested.

It is a problem that is with us and which is going to continue to be with us for sometime.

EFFECT OF CONTROLLED MATERIALS PLAN

I might say that that goes back to our discussion on personnel earlier. The controlled materials plan, which I have had to hande this past year with the same force as I have had in the past, has been an added load. I have had to take a number of people and put them on that job pretty much to the exclusion of their other duties. I know that Senator Cordon is well aware of the problems that we have in that particular field.

Senator CORDON. Now, have you any information from the defense agencies indicative of what you may expect in the next fiscal year with reference particularly to steel allocation?

General CHORPENING. The latest information that I have, sir, would indicate that the situation in the future ought to be somewhat better than it has been in the past.

Senator CORDON. Now, the funds that have been either appropriated or made available by virtue of certificates of necessity and accelerated amortization and so forth for the construction of additions to the present steel capacity in the United States, or steel production capacity in the United States, should begin bearing fruit around the end of the present fiscal year; should it not?

General CHORPENING. That is the information we have; yes, sir. Senator CORDON. And that will make available that additional steel production?

General CHORPENING. Yes, sir.

Senator CORDON. But am I correct in saying, according to the information that I have, that there is not included in that program sub