This section of the bill, as written, states that officers must be commissioned for 2 years as a lieutenant commander before they are eligible for promotion to a higher rank. When officers are commissioned they will take precedence at the bottom of the lieutenantcommander grade, and will only go up for promotion when their line running mate comes up for selection, which will be many years later. This section of the bill as written, therefore, defeats the purpose of the bill, which is to make it possible to offer to outstanding leaders in the business field in their particular specialties a rank suitable to the responsible position which they hold in civilian industry, and sufficiently attractive to induce them to join the Naval Reserve.

It would further make it necessary, when these officers finally become available for selection, to select them over the heads of other officers who had been on the list many years, and such a procedure would probably cause considerable ill feeling and have a very bad effect on the morale of the personnel. It is a decidedly different proposition than selection of officers on the active Navy. The suggested wording corrects this.

Section 720. Change section 720 to read:

SEC. 720. That in the Naval Reserve there may be appointed scientists, technicists, and other personnel for duty in connection with the work of the various bureaus and offices in such numbers and in such grades and ranks as the Secretary of the Navy may prescribe: Provided, That in addition to the appropriations made for the pay and allowances of officers of the Naval Reserve, the appropriations made to the various bureaus and offices of the Navy Department authorizing part time or intermittent employment of scientists, technicists and other personnel in connection with the work of such Bureaus and offices, shall be available for the active duty pay and allowances of such Naval Reservists as in the discretion of the Secretary of the Navy may be placed on temporary active duty for such part time or intermittent employment; Provided further, That nothing contained in this section shall prevent the payment of pay and allowances to such personnel from the appropriation made for the pay and allowances of officers of the Naval Reserve during periods of training duty or active duty.

REASON FOR CHANGE

The proposed change carries out the purpose of the bill and allows especially prominent civilian specialists to be commissioned in such numbers as the Secretary of the Navy may prescribe, in the higher ranks of the technical corps of the Navy.

The various technical corps of the Navy have heretofore been handicapped in enrolling outstanding specialists and technicists in ranks suitable to the positions they occupy, their responsibility and position in civilian industry.

Mr. BURNHAM. You were at first commenting on section 703, which is on page 151. Then you jump right over to section 720 on page 219, having to do with the same thing.

Admiral LAND. The same thing; yes, sir. They are closely interlocked and those are changes suggested to make them fit, one with the other.

Mr. BURNHAM. But do you suggest a change there?

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir. I would like to add:

exclusive of the number of officers appointed as provided in section 720.

They are interlocking. My three comments all affect section 720 and the interrelated section, 703. In my copy of the bill the pages were apparently 149 and 151.

Mr. DELANEY. Page 149 refers to section 703 in our report; is that correct?

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir; that is correct. I am not sure of the page, but that is the copy of the bill that I had.

Mr. BURNHAM. Those are pages 149 and 151.
Admiral LAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. BURNHAM. And they refer to section 703. It was section 703 that you were commenting upon. But you suggest the proposed wording in section 720.

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir. I would like to modify section 720, and in order to make section 703 fit with section 720, I would recommend the addition of the words to 703, "exclusive of the number of officers appointed as provided in section 720.”

Mr. DELANEY. Admiral, have you discussed this matter with the Board-the matter of these suggested changes?

Admiral LAND. No, sir.

Mr. DELANEY. This is your personal opinion as to the best method of carrying out the provisions of this law?

Admiral LAND. I have discussed this matter with the technical corps of the Navy. This is not a personal opinion. It is an official opinion which, so far as my knowledge goes, is concurred in by the Naval Reserve personnel specialists in Supplies and Accounts, Yards and Docks, and Construction and Repair.

Mr. DELANEY. Mr. Darden, have you any questions?

Mr. DARDEN. Would it be possible, Admiral, to combine these sections in such a way that the entire law might be before a person, compactly? I have found it very confusing, where a particular section is expected in personnel legislation, to find that you think you have one thing, and unless you are very cautious about what the exception does, you end up with something totally different.

Admiral LAND. Of course, Mr. Darden, that is a criticism of all legislation. It had to be so complicated. I doubt if it could be combined. I remember distinctly having this same question raised when we were trying to make some corrections in a staff bill. We had to write four pages to accomplish that.

From the legal point of view, I think this is as brief as it possibly

can be.

Mr. DARDEN. Would there be any objection to making that the following section? In other words, are you familiar enough with the bill to know whether it would throw it out if the two sections were placed together, one following the other?

Admiral LAND. I think they could be rearranged without any difficulty; yes, sir. But I am not familiar enough with the bill to say. As I say, I think it is an excellent bill, and I think it is put in about as good order as it could be.

Mr. DARDEN. What do you think of the provision for service of 2 years in grade for promotion?

Admiral LAND. I think it is an essential requirement for Reserves. I think, as suggested here, that for technicists and specialists, in order that we may have any reasonable chance of obtaining the people we want, that there would have to be some exceptions.

Mr. DARDEN. You mean as to service in grade or exceptions as to the original rank in which they were commissioned?

Admiral LAND. I think both. I think as written 2 years in that grade is quite satisfactory, for a large majority. I feel that to accomplish the results desired, they should have these sections 703 and 720 to cover the technicists.

Mr. DELANEY. Admiral, is it not a fact that the Army is able to offer a higher rank to these men than the Navy?

Admiral LAND. That is my understanding; yes, sir.

Mr. DELANEY. In other words, the Army, because of the fact that they can offer these greater inducements in rank, are in a position to get the best men for that branch of the service.

Admiral LAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. DELANEY. And after all, we feel that the Navy is a more important part of our defense, as well as our offense; and that we should be in a position to give these men a status just as high as the Army offers them.

Admiral LAND. We certainly feel that the Navy is the first line of defense and therefore they ought to have at least an even break on that.

Mr. DARDEN. Have you any idea, Admiral, how many officers you would need in this category?"

Admiral LAND. Our allowance is 440. That is the total. That includes active and reserves. Our numbers in active service are about 188 and our reserves are about 30. That is all we have. We have a little over 10 percent. That is the reason why I want a little better break in order not to build this up necessarily but to have the possibilities of building it up properly.

Mr. DARDEN. The 10 percent that you have, does that percentage represent any who have resigned from the staff of the Navy or who have retired, or does that represent Reserves that have come in the service for the first time?

Admiral LAND. Both, sir. I could give you a break-down of that. But they represent both. Of course, retired officers are always available: certain resigned officers and those who are technically qualified in civil status who have not been in the active Navy.

Mr. DARDEN. Who have not had service in the active Navy? Admiral LAND. Some of them had, sir, during the war. But those gentlemen who had service during the ware are getting pretty old, and we have to recruit from among the rising naval architects and technicists of the country.

Mr. DARDEN. Let me ask you in reference to section 720:

shall be available for active duty and pay and allowances of certain naval reservists in the discretion of the Secretary of the Navy may be placed on temporary active duty for the purpose of prosecuting such work.

Do you mean there that you would like to be given leeway to call in scientists or experts in a particular line of naval construction and assign them to work for a prescribed period of time that might exceed just the training work? They are well trained in their field, but they have not reached the point you expect them to reach before you give them higher Reserve commissions, as I understand.

Admiral LAND. That is correct. This is only giving them administrative leeway. They may be charged to the bureau appropriation,

but it does not forbid them being charged to th serve appropriation. In one case they would b technical job, properly chargeable to the burea another, they might be permanent naval reserv under the permanent Naval Reserve appropr little leeway; it provides a little more elasticity change.

Mr. MAAS. Will the gentleman yield at that I Mr. DARDEN. Yes.

Mr. MAAS. Why should they be charged to appropriation if they are appointed to and emp ular Navy and are doing work in connection wi and do not have anything to do with the Reserv

As Mr. Darden has pointed out, it is not for That is what the Reserve appropriation is fo and scientists are commissioned and called to ac assignments with the Regular Navy. Why sh be charged to the Reserve appropriation?

Admiral LAND. It would not be if they we special jobs. That is the reason we have broade Mr. MAAS. Where they are kept on continuo Admiral LAND. I do not know of any such answer the question. There is no intention of were permanently in the Naval Reserve, they a Reserve appropriation.

Mr. MAAS. This is something we want to corr should all of these men, when they are called the Regular Navy, not be paid out of the regu tion? The Reserve appropriation is for the tra and the money ought to be held inviolate for Admiral LAND. That is a question that I Captain Spears would answer.

Mr. DARDEN. To go back on that point, you h either the Regular Navy or the Reserve. There The Reserve is built up for the purpose of aidin It may be divided into a number of subheads. called in to give advice to the Navy, why should the Reserve appropriation?

Mr. MAAS. For the reason that the Reserve the purpose of training Reserves to be ready in for peacetime utilization.

Mr. DARDEN. Is it not also for the purpose of during time of emergency?

Mr. MAAS. True, but in peacetime such emp out of the regular appropriation for the Navy. poor picture to the country and to Congress w Reserve appropriation services that are rend Establishment.

Mr. BURNHAM. Will the gentleman yield the Mr. MAAS. Yes.

Mr. BURNHAM. With reference to section 720. that these scientists and technicists, and so on, the appropriations for the Naval Reserve but made for the various bureaus.

Mr. MAAS. I am talking about the suggestion Admiral Land has made of a proposed change, which would permit that to come out of the Reserve appropriation.

Mr. BURNHAM. As section 720 is written here, it would come out of the regular naval appropriation, would it not?

Mr. MAAS. That is right.

Mr. DARDEN. We heard a representative of the Medical Corps, and it was admitted that there were many doctors who desired to be in the Reserves who had had admirable training, and they wanted their services available in time of emergency. If they were called in temporarily, it would seem to me to be a proper charge against the Reserve. They are, in fact, part of the Reserve. In fact, the Government is the gainer if they do not need to be trained. They are not part of the Regular Establishment, in fact.

Mr. MAAS. It should be a matter of purposes, as I see it. I am not quarreling with the Navy. I am saying that the Navy should ask for an adequate appropriation to run the Navy Department, and the Naval Establishment, in time of peace. When it comes to appropriations for the reserve, it is expected that those appropriations will be for the training of Reserves as auxiliaries to the Navy in time of

war.

We are getting an incorrect picture, if we take funds that are appropriated for the Reserve and use them for the Regular Establishment. You do not have then a proper picture of the state of the national defense at all.

Mr. DARDEN. Are you exactly accurate on that? Here is what we want to do: We want to draw any certain number of men from the merchant marine who have sea training, who are capable, who are competent in that field; we want to draw a certain number of doctors and specialists who are capable, who are competent in their field; and we want to make them part of the Reserve; not particularly to train them, but to have them immediately available in time of need.

Mr. MAAS. Again the question arises as to whether you are calling them in to make them better fitted for their work in time of war, or whether you are calling them in to fill vacancies in the Regular Navy in peacetime operations. If it is to carry out regular assignments of the peacetime Navy, then that ought to come out of the regular appropriation. If it is to increase the value of the officers to the national defense in time of war, then it should come out of the Reserve appropriation.

Mr. DELANEY. Gentlemen, do you not think we are going far afield while Admiral Land is on the stand, in raising the question of the allocation of the funds?

up.

Mr. MAAS. That is one of the questions that his amendment brings

Mr. DELANEY. That is something for the committee to decide afterward, whether they shall recommend to the full committee that these funds should be charged against the Reserve or against the regular Naval Establishment.

Mr. MAAS. I was bringing it up with the idea of getting from Admiral Land a statement as to what his attitude was, representing the Regular Navy.