Of course, all of our boats down there are small boats. They do not go out for long trips, they are all back in the course of a day and, of course, the fish come in very rapidly and if we could in some way keep those fish back until the fish that have been taken up and down the coast were worked off, then these fish of ours would come on to a market which would pay our men better money.

That is the only point I wanted to make on it. Mr. SEGER. You know, Mr. Case, that the administration, at least the Members of Congress, afforded relief to the fishermen of New England, where open weather had caused a glut in the market, by buying and distributing fish among those needing relief; so that we have been sympathetic with the fishermen, so far as I am concerned, all of the time. I do not know whether that was sufficient to help the market in New England, or not, but it did relieve it to some extent.

Your condition is very smiliar. You have a glut by reason of the fact that your fish accumulate down there very rapidly. I suppose, and there is no market for them at the time.

Mr. Case. We try to place as many of our fish as possible through our own houses there, and not go into New York City. Myself, personally, I am able to place two carloads of fish; but, if the boys bring them in faster than that, I have no way to keep the fish except to ship them right over to New York, or to some big center, and let them go through the commission houses. The result is that the fishermen do not get a living wage for their products.

Mr. SEGER. Are those fish shipped on refrigerated boats or cars?

Mr. CASE. We ship a great many by express; also by freight, in refrigerated cars, and this last season we put on four trucks, large trucks, and found them to be very satisfactory; because we could put about 55 barrels in one of those trucks and it would arrive in New York in 37 hours, which brought the fish there in very fine condition, equal to express.

Mr. SEGER. How does 37 hours compare with railroad time?

Mr. CASE. It takes about 5 days; that is, when shipping by carloads.

Mr. SEGER. That is by freight?
Mr. Case. That is by freight.
Mr. SEGER. And by express?
Mr. CASE. Express runs just about the same as the trucks.

Mr. SEGER. And then there is no unloading and reloading when you ship by truck, is there?

Mr. Čase. No; and it saves on our expense there in the fish house. We do not have to draw those fish about a mile and a half to put them on the railroad, and it saves a lot of handling and saves us much time, and the fish get here in a shorter time and in very much better condition.

I have two customers here in the city whom I called on yesterday and asked how the fish came through, and they said the fish we shipped them through the cooperative were finer than any fish that came out of the South that they bought.

Mr. OLIVER. You say you represent three cooperative associations ?

Mr. Case. No, sir; I am manager of the Fishermen's Cooperative Corporation of West Palm Beach. The others are independent, although they all sort of work together.

Mr. OLIVER. How long has this cooperative that you are associated with been in existence?

Mr. CASE. We have been in existence about 12 years.

Mr. OLIVER. And before the cooperative was in existence was there a period when the fishermen along the coast were more or less demoralized, so far as the industry is concerned ?

Mr. CASE. Why, they were all fishing, Mr. Oliver, for various dealers up and down the coast, and it got to the point where they thought the dealer was not giving them what they thought they ought to get for their fish, and they formed this cooperative association and found it worked out very much to their advantage, for the reason we do not try to make any profit. We take the fish inMr. OLIVER. You mean the association does not ?

Mr. CASE. No; our corporation does not try to make any profit. We take the fish in, put it up to the best advantage, sell it just as well as we possibly know how, for as much as we possibly can get, ded ing a certain barrelage for overhead, just to cover the actual cost; then returning to the fishermen all there is left, which, of course, pays him a cent or two more per pound than the dealers would be paying in the same locality.

Mr. OLIVER. So that the effect of this cooperative has been to lift the price received by the producer?

Mr. CASE. Right.

Mr. OLIVER. And has it, in your opinion, had any effect on the price to the consumer ?

Mr. CASE. I would not believe it would have.

Mr. OLIVER. Have you in your association established any marketing system or procedure that would lead to a wider use of your products!

Mr Cass. Only as we try to go to the various towns and places east of the Mississippi and find places where we can sell a barrel here and a barrel there, so as not to throw this surplus onto the market in New York.

Mr. OLIVER. Your association, then, as I understand, acts as an aggressive salesman; is that the point? Mr. CASE. That is right. Mr. OLIVER. For the independent fishermen who are members ? Mr. CASE. That is right.

Mr. OLIVER. What do you charge those members; do you charge a membership fee or dues ?

Mr. Case. It is a stock company, and they are supposed to take five shares of the stock. The price of the stock varies; it runs anywhere from $25 to $50, depending on how the market is.

Mr. OLIVER. There is only one other point, Mr. Chairman, I want to clear up, and that is this: During this spring we appropriated money to purchase fish in the market, due to the glut that was occasioned by the frozen-fish products, and the inference has gotten into the record here that it is primarily for the benefit of the New England fishermen. I want to say this money was used, or was to be used, for various fishing areas for the purpose of relieving the situation, as was said frequently, which had arisen because of the New England situation. I just wanted to correct the record on that.

1224—37-4

The CHAIRMAN. That is true, and it was because it was felt that the relief of that situation would relieve conditions generally throughout the country; but, wherever there were goods of that kind, they were on the market for purchase, and it was not for any particular part of the country. In fact, I think some of the herring packers down my way got some assistance.

Mr. OLIVER. And I think the Great Lakes. It was for the purpose of removing the surplus product.

The CHAIRMAX. Yes; for removing the surplus product, and not to benefit any particular section.

Mr. Case With us particularly, as long as we get the fish, you might say, at the last end of the catch they go all down the coast and come to us last—the market is full and we cannot place them, and we must throw them into a cold-storage plant large enough to take care of the cooperatives and thus hold those fish back for 6 or 7 days, so that they need not go on to the market and cause a further glut-just holding them back for a short period.

The CHAIRMAX. That is unquestionably true. Mr. Case. That is our biggest problem there, so that we get a better price for the fish.

Mr. OLIVER. Has this cooperative in your locality been well received br the fishermen themselves!

Mr. Case. Very well. We have about 300 members: of course, not all actually engaged in fishing. This fall we will hare perhaps 50 boats, and we had 25 to start.

Mr. OLIVER. Do you have a situation down there where many fishermen, throughout many years have had families that have gone into the fishing industry, and today ther find themselves, because of the depression, in a demoralizei condition. Do you find many of them, in other words are tolay ourside of the pale of the fishing industry, by reason of the economie situation that now exists, or has your cooperative helped to relieve that situation!

Nr. Cise. Of course, as to our corporation, we pay more money durirg the tason, and if we could only held the bovs together for tie cisti Pall, which is through the sizer-e do not operate there except from September und Mxv, and then we have a period there for these threren when it is kind of hunt for them to get こい sory. It is not a vear-s-nordpresher

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Mr. CASE. I feel this bill would be of great help to us in the State of Florida. There are about six to eight thousand actual fishermen that we know of in the State, and that comprises the whole State, and there are a great many thousands of pounds of fish taken which, if they could be brought up here in the right manner, instead of in great large quantities that the market cannot consume them, it would be a fine thing for the fishermen.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Case. Is Mr. Meek here now, or Mr. Leblanc? I suppose, Mr. Margolis, you are here representing in a commercial way the New England fishermen?

Mr. MARGOLIS. Mr. Leblanc is the secretary of that organization, and he could not be here.

The CHAIRMAN. He will not be here?
Mr. MARGOLIS. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, is there a representative here of the New Jersey Fisheries Association, no name given? Or is there anyone else present whose name has not been given me who desires to be heard? If so, I am going to give them an opportunity now, because we will suspend the hearings, to be taken up later at some day subsequently to be fixed, when we will hear Mr. Salter and Mr. Fiedler and the other Government witnesses. But if there is anybody who wants to be heard now, I would be very glad to have them speak now, or notify me, because no notice of the further hearing will be given except to members of the committee.

Mr. NOWELL. I have just one question.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your name?

STATEMENT OF CAPT. WILLIAM G. NOWELL, SHADYSIDE, MD.

Captain NOWELL. Capt. William G. Nowell, Shadyside, Md., right across from here on the bay.

There is just one question that I wanted to ask. I am not a fisherman, nor am I interested in the fishermen as fishermen in any possible manner, except I get out a little paper called Chesapeake Bayman, which is in the interest of fishermen and oystermen on the bay.

I was wondering if this cooperative will permit a State like the State of Maryland to borrow money if you get your bill through?

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think it provides for loans directly to a State. I am not sure about that. But if you want to hear the bill discussed on its merits, I will let you know when these other gentle. men will come on.

Do you remember, Mr. Salter?

Mr. SALTER. Mr. Chairman, that question was raised in conversation with me last week by a Representative of the State of Iowa, which takes rough fish, including the catch in Buffalo, because of the State laws there calling for the clearance of the State waters of that type of fish, and the question came up of a cooperative association for several of those adjoining States, which would include representation of the States and also of the fishermen.

Under the law, of course, I do not know of any, from a legal opinion. I should think that if a State were acting as a producer and qualified in that respect, it might be considered a member of a cooperative organization for carrying on a function of that kind; but if the State itself is carrying on a sole operation of its own, irrespective of other States or other individuals, I question whether funds might be available for that purpose.

The CHARMAN. Very much the same as cooperative associations for agricultural purposes.

Mr SALTER. That is right.

The Chairmax. There is no provision where a loan may be made for a State, is there?

Mr. Sulter. No; loans are not made to States, but in a State where there are state-owned farms, where crops are produced by labor in servitude, these products are put through some of the agricultural cooperative associations, which are eligible for borrowing money from the Farm Credit luministration for the carrying of their

The ChryAX. Is there anything further?

Nr. VAELL. For your informar an, the State of Maryland is now engagui in a fensie war in rpanting ersters in Chesapeake BarSeisandisan: but if the State would go into it in a comprehensive

exsive waliour pouvator, ve ved be twofold or threeei mirerserne med ive bereidi.

Tie RARNİN. IN Vineria the Commissioner et series tertie Satellarriandrare sin examine the bill

ith references to its interests. V: VW Meja Nr. Cinsi Super I get out, I sve satis I was leare some of that way.

Clux Gris Ju. . Kdo you have any

STATENIIT OF DI ITIS XANTII TIE TITE SECRETARY

CITSE OTSTE GRUTEIS UN PILIIS ASOCIATION