a view of the produce of the Irish revenue for the last year, and contended, that it was under-stated in the Resolutions by at least 200,000l. The sum had arisen from the extraordinary resources of the year, which the right honourable gentleman had wholly overlooked. He must contend, that the Irish revenue had produced 3,800,000l. instead of 3,600,000l. which was the sum stated in the Resolutions. However, he would not dwell on this minor difference; for he was free to acknowledge, that the financial situation of Ireland was such as to require all the attention and ability that could be applied to it. It was confessedly a situation in which the revenue was unequal to the annual charge of the debt. This was a state which it ought not to be in; and it certainly became the House to consider why the taxes were so deficient, and in what way the defi ciency could be remedied. With regard to the compa rison of Administrations, which the right honourable genileman had thought fit to make, he would not say one word, but leave the public to form their own opinion upon that head. When he (Mr. Foster) was in office in 1804, his object was to raise the revenue so as to cover the charge of the debt, and to produce as much beyond it as possible. From that period the revenue did actually begin to rise, and in the year before last the rise had been very rapid indeed. On the other hand, it unquestionably tell rapidly last year but if any average of four years was to be taken, which was the fair way of considering the matter, then the average revenue would be found not to be less than four millions and a half, which was considerably more than the charge of the debt. One cause of the fall in the revenue, he attributed to this, that the excise on spirits had operated but for a short time last year. But if the usual consumption of spirits went on in Ireland, and effectual means were found for putting down the clandestine distilleries, the country might look to a revenue, not only equal to the charge of the debt, but leaving a surplus of two millions a year for the current expenditure. The sum he wanted to raise was six millions and a half for the charge of the debt, and for the current expences of the year. He would say, that taking into account the consumption of spirits in Ireland, when the distillery in that country was brought up to nearly the same rate of duties that it was in this, and when the accuracy of collection was brought to be og a level with that which took place in the British distil : At leries, a very considerable rise might be expected. present only about six millions of gallons paid the duty in Ireland. At a moderate calculation there were eight millions of gallons of illicit distillation, which paid no duty; and these at a duty of 7s. 6d per gallon, which was less than the British duty, would produce a sum of three millions a year. He really did not think that the object of the right honourable gentleman's motion was to harass the Irish Government; and he, therefore, sincerely asked his advice, concurrence, and assistance, in every thing that could benefit the revenue of that country. He was ready to go hand in hand with him in every measure which could have that effect; but he must oppose the Resolutions, as giving a colour to many facts which they would not be found to bear, and as being premature from there being no papers before the House. He should think it much better for the right honourable gentleman to withdraw his Resolutions, and wait till some inquiry should be proceeded in. Mr. Foster then entered into a variety of minute calculations on the produce of different taxes imposed last year. He wished particularly to correct the mis-statements that had gone abroad on the subject of the window-tax. That tax did not affect Houses having fewer than seven windows, and therefore fell very lightly on the lower classes of society, who in general were not so well housed as in England. The deficiency in the advertising tax had been complained of by the honourable Baronet. What was the reason of this deficiency? Why, the moment the tax was imposed, the proprietors of all the papers cried out, "Bring us no more of your advertisements, the tax has ruined us ;" and thus, that the tax might prove unproductive, these men vilified their own profession. The tax was, however, now be coming more productive. With respect to the tax on bills and notes, it had fully answered every expectation. The Bank, which had compounded with the Treasury for this tax, for the sum of five hundred pounds annually, now made an offer of two thousand pounds more. The failure of the wine-duty was imputed to the state of the country which produced the wine, and also to the failure of commercial credit. That failure was also the sole reason for the fall of the tax on tca: Ireland was not able to get the accustomed credit; and this, and not the duty, occasioned the deficiency in the consumption of tea. Any defalcation, however, in the revenue, arose entirely from the imports, for the exports were still undiminished. Let affairs, however, appear as they might at the present moment, the resources of the country remained undiminished; and any fall of the revenue which had taken place, was rather a symptom that Ireland chose to keep her money to herself, than a proof that she had not the means of expenditure. Taking, however, the general comparative average of the exports of England and Ireland since the year 1800, Ireland had considerably risen upon this country. It was true that in the last year the imports in Ireland had failed, and therefore the present cry had been raised. Ireland was gradually increasing in resources; but when the present situation of the empire was considered, the wonder that she could not keep pace with its expences would cease. We must nurse the resources of an infant country, and not nip them in the bud; and by this means we should the better enable it to meet future emergencies. He was aware of the great length into which his statement had been drawn, but he was compelled to it by the statement of the honourable Baronet, as he was determined no longer to allow any accusations to go forth uncontradicted or without explanation. The honourable Baronet had referred to the Excise salaries; if he did not like them, why did he himself bring in a Bill for the purpose? In fact, the present Excise collection, which gave such general satisfaction, had been planned by himself, and afterwards adopted by the honourable Baronet when he came into office. Did the honourable Baronet object to the abolition of fees? No. When they were abolished, did he object to the proposed grant of compensation to the officers? No; he did not make the slightest opposition to the proposal at the time it was made, and therefore he had no right at present to complain of that in which he had formerly acquiesced. The right bonourable gentleman then went into a defence of the warehousing system. and a denial of the alleged deficiency in the Leather Tax. He wished to shun no investigation. On the contrary, he was rejoiced that the question had been now fully brought forward: he was ready to meet it fairly, and would, with all his heart, go hand in hand into an inquiry concerning the financial situation of Ireland. Lord Castlereagh thought, that this was a most interesting question, not only to Ireland, but to the kingdom in' general; nothing but the joint exertions of both sides of the House could put the finance of Ireland on a satisfactory footing. The question ought to be fully and fairly canvassed; and he was glad to hear that the right honourable gentleman intended to bring it forward in a shape intelligible to their understandings. The great difference between the raising of the English and Irish revenue was, that the one was raised chiefly on property, the other on consumption. If Ireland went on increasing her debt in the manner which she had done, she must find herself in the end in financial difficulty. He was glad to hear that inquiry into the finances of Ireland was now to be encouraged, as he felt a natural interest in a couutry where he had spent most of his life, and in which his fortune and his affectious were wound up. Mr. Parnell had hoped that the noble Lord had risen to tell the House, that the ratio of contribution which he had given the Irish Parliament by way of a boon, had been falsely calculated, and turned out rather a burthen than a benefit. Ireland was now proceeding with a revenue of about four millions and a half, and an expenditure of about eleven millions, a great part of which expenditure consisted in the interest of loans borrowed since the Union. Since Ireland was to be taxed on the same principle with England, she ought to be governed on the same principle. The only ground on which England could expect Ireland to share in the burthen was, that she ought also to share in the benefits. Mr. May wished a Committee might be appointed to convince the people of Ireland that the House was in ear nest from such an investigation he augured much benefit, and if that was conceded to, he hoped the honourable Baronet would withdraw his motion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the House being seemingly agreed on all hands that the subject was of such importance as without loss of time to require investigation, he hoped the right honourable Baronet would withdraw his resolutions for the present, as the information now before. the House was not such as to allow the subject to go before the public, and to give alarm without being accompanied by documents which would give an explanation of the real causes of the defalcation in the revenue. He thought the proposition of Mr. Foster very fair, of instituting an inquiry as soon as the assizes in Ireland were over, which would give a full attendance of Members from that country. He hoped, therefore, the right honourable Baronet would with draw his resolutions under these circumstances, rather than put them to the necessity of meeting them with the previous question. Mr. Bankes said, a matter of greater importance, or one which deserved more serious consideration, could not exist. He thought inquiry necessary, and that it could not be too soon entertained. He took a comprehensive view of the Irish revenue, and pointedly condemned the rate of collection as amounting almost to the revenue itself. He hoped, as soon as the Irish Members could be collected, no time would be lost in appointing a Committee, and that the right honourable Baronet would not suffer it to be put off till the Ways and Means, and Supplies, were over; for if he did, they might take leave of the subject till another Session. He thought the right honourable Baronet deserved great praise for now bringing it forward. He did not take his materials from vague ideas of his own, or of other people, but from papers on the table, from which he had selected the facts, and these must be grounded on authority. He hoped, however, the right honourable Baronet would, under present circumstances, consent to withdraw his resolutions. Mr. Foster, in explanation, said, that the moment this motion was disposed of, he would give notice of the day on which he would bring forward a motion for an inquiry into the subject. Mr. Ponsonby said, that all circumstances considered, he thought it would be more advisable for his right honourable friend to withdraw his resolutions; but in so doing, he would advise him to move immediately for a day to take the subject into consideration. He thought it should not, on any account, be deferred beyond the latter end of this or the beginning of next month. He hoped he had as much respect for the Irish representation as any man in the House; but with all that respect, he would wish to see the Committee composed of a majority of British rather than of Irish Members, for whose attendance he saw no occasion to wait. If the appointment of the Committee did not very soon take place, it would either go too late into the Session to do any good, or the Session must be protracted for the purpose of attending to that subject alone. He hoped, therefore, his right honourable friend would immediately move for an early day; and that in naming the Committee, VOL. II.-1811. 3 C |