Earl. Last year the aid given was 900,000l.; this year it would, on a view of all the circumstances, be proposed, that the sum of two millions should be voted.

PLACES IN REVERSION.

Earl Grosvenor rose to move that the second reading of the Reversion Prevention Bill should be postponed till Monday week. The order of the day was accordingly discharged, the motion being agreed to nem. diss. Adjourned to Monday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FRIDAY, MARCH 15.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.-NAVY ESTIMATES.

Mr. Yorke moved the order of the day, for going into a Committee of Supply.

Mr. C. W. Wynne observed, that in consequence of the regulation which had been recently adopted respecting the precedence of orders of the day on certain days of the week, it was understood that on those days the orders should be taken according to their priority in the order book. If this were not the case, and the right honourable gentleman opposite should be at liberty to select any order from any part of the list, and by that means give it precedence of the rest, much of the inconvenience which it was expected the late alteration would remove would still be left, inasmuch as the right hon. gentleman might, by giving precedence to particular orders, put off important measures to a late hour. He had no desire to interfere with the priority that was due to the Navy Estimates; but after the recent regulation, he could not allow the right hon. gentleman to claim precedence for any order as a matter of course, and without stating distinctly some sufficient ground for the claim.

The Speaker, in calling upon the right hon. gentleman, had conformed to the usage, which, in the memory of every member, prevailed, especially on all questions touching the supplies. He was not aware that the recent regulation had made any change in that usage. All he desired, was to be instructed by the House as to the plain and definite line of his duty; but, until he should be distinctly apprised of the intention of the House to substitute some other course for

that which had been hitherto sanctioned by the uniform practice of Parliament, he should not consider himself warranted in departing from it. He trusted, therefore, that the House would come to some decision upon this point.

A conversation ensued, in which several members took a part; but as the precedence of the Navy Estimates was not disputed, the House went into the Committee of Supply, leaving the other question to be settled, on the next order of the day that should be moved.

The Navy Estimates were referred to the Committee.

Mr. Yorke then rose, and said, that it was his duty on that occasion to propose to the Committee, to vote the necessary supplies for defraying the expence of those branches of the Naval Service contained in the Estimates, especially the Ordinaries and Extraordinaries of the Navy. The Committee would recollect, that they had already voted the number of seamen and marines, the ordnance for the sca service, and the provision for the wear and tear of the ships in which those seamen were to serve. What he had in this instance to propose to be voted, was the estimates for the expences of the civil departments of the navy, of the ships kept in ordinary, that is, not in actual service at sea-of the different allowances by way of pensions naval and militaryof the extraordinaries of the navy, viz. the building and repairing of ships in the King's dock-yards, and also completing the ships in the Merchants' yards, and also the expences of the transport service. Before he should proceed to the details of these different estimates, as they were framed somewhat differently from former estimates, he felt that it would be necessary for him to state the principle upon which the estimates were framed. The alteration which had taken place, was adopted in consequence of an Act which had passed towards the close of last session; and in framing the estimates pursuant to the provisions of that Act, much improvement had been effected in the order and arrangement of the different estimates. Before the passing of that Act, it was customary to include under the head of ordinary service, all the expences of superannuation in each department. Considerable confusion was thereby introduced into the estimates; and it was consequently difficult to find the precise amount of the expence of pensions, civil, naval, or military, or of the superannuation, whilst thus included in the ordinary estimate. At present these expences were not only classed under distinct heads, but in

some of the estimates many items had been omitted, as not properly belonging to such estimates. As the estimates were formerly prepared, no satisfactory information could be obtained from them; a defect, which, by the arrangement now introduced, would, he trusted, be altogether corrected. Besides, it was to be observed, that, until last year, several pensions had been discharged from a fund, produced yearly by the sale of old naval and victualling stores, with which they had no necessary connection, but upon which both pensions and superannuations were charged by the King's warrant. The Act of last session very properly directs, that all the sums which should be received for old naval or victualling stores should be brought to account, and distinctly voted; and that the pensions formerly charged upon that fund, should be made the subject of estimate. It was with a view to this object, and in obedience to the provisions of the Act, that the estimates of the present year had been framed. As the mode of preparing them was new, he hoped, they would be considered with indulgence by the House; but he at the same time flattered himself that they would not be found to contain many mistakes. But if there should be any errors, they would be easily corrected in a future instance. Having said thus much of the principle upon which the estimates were framed, he should next proceed to state in detail to the Committee the estimates which he was to propose to them to vote. In doing this, he should, as he proceeded, inform the Committee of any increase or diminution which may have taken place in any of the estimates, as well as their total amount. And, after having in that manner put the Committee in possession of all the information upon the subject which appeared to him to be necessary for forming a just opinion upon it, he should be perfectly ready to give any hon. member any explanation which he might deem it right to require upon any one of the items in the estimates. The ordinary service of the navy divided itself into three se parate and distinct heads, a division adopted in obedience to the Act of last session. The first head included the salaries of the officers, and the other expences of the departments--of the different dock-yards-of the commissioners. and officers of the out-ports and on foreign stations-of the repairs of the ships in ordinary, distinguished from those on service at sea-and of the civil charge for victualling in these branches. The second head comprised the estimates

for the half-pay, and the expences of pensions, naval as well as military, distinguishing them from civil pensions. Under the third head were included the expences of allowances to retired officers, and of superannuation in the civil administration of the navy, and in the different departments of the dock-yards. With respect to the first head, he should observe, that there was a small increase of 24331. above the estimate of last year. The estimate of last year was 174,0877. that of the present year 176,5251. The increase was to be accounted for on this ground; though there was some saving upon some of the items, yet, upon the whole, there was the small excess he had stated, which arose from that part of the salary of the first Lord of the Admiralty, and of the Treasurer of the Navy, which had been heretofore charged upon the proceeds of the sale of old stores, having been this year included in the estimate. Besides, some augmentation had been made to the salaries of clerks, in consideration of long service in the departments. In the estimate of the expence of the dock-yards, there was also an increase. The estimate of last year, under that head, was 175,5587.; the estimate of this year was 181,782. which gave an excess of 6,2241. This increase arose principally from some augmentation which it had been thought desirable to make to the salaries of some of the inferior officers in the different dock-yards, and also from its having been found necessary to increase the number of watchmen employed to guard the property in the dockyards. The expence under the head of commissioners, and officers at the out-ports and on foreign stations, was also greater than in the last year. Last year it was 47,9351.: this year it was 58,423. giving an excess of expence amounting to 9,5127. This increase arose from the introduction into the estimate of the salaries of officers not before, included; such as the Master-attendant at Gibraltar and Jamaica, which produced an addition to the aggregate of 25401. the excess likewise arose from the establishment at Barbadoes being included this year in the estimate, and from its having been thought right to make an addition of 1,000l. to the salary of each of the commissioners at Bombay and Madras. The next head to which he had to call the attention of the Committee, was the expence of the ships in ordinary, and of building, and of repairs of buildings in the different dock-yards. There was little difference this year in the estimate of the expence for ships in ordinary. Under

one head there was a diminution of expence to the amount of 17,679%.; but then under another head there was an increase of 44,6721. This increase, which must at first appear considerable, was to be accounted for on the ground of the buildings which were found necessary to be erected in the different dock-yards, which could not possibly be dispensed with, and also by the expence incurred in supplying an additional number of cranes to the yards at Portsmouth and Plymouth, where they were greatly wanted. In the estimate for the expence of victualling the departments there was a saving. The estimate this year was 111,1637.; last year it was 131,3951.; so that the diminution amounted to 20,2321. This diminution of expenditure had arisen from the judicious arrangements adopted by the Victualling Board, of the meritorious conduct of which he was happy to take that opportunity of expressing his entire approbation. Having thus disposed of the estimates for the repairs of ships in ordinary and for building, he next came to the two heads of half-pay and superannuation. Under these heads there was an augmentation of 20,000l.; the estimate of last year having been only 250,000l. whilst that of the present year was 270,000l. Upon the estimate for pensions there was an increase of 4,4221. This arose from the small sums which had been required for officers wounded within the year, and also for some addition to the provision for officers' widows. With regard to the estimate for retirement and superannuation, gentlemen who should take the trouble to look through the estimates, would find that there were many items included in the present estimate which heretofore were charged upon the fund produced by the sale of old stores. This rendered the apparent excess much more considerable than the real increase of charge. The estimate of the present year, under this head, was 42,8201. that of last year was 23,6817. making the apparent excess 19,1397. With respect to the extraordinary expence of the navy, that, as he had before stated, consisted of building and repairs of ships in the dock-yards, of building in the merchants' yards, and other expences in the docks. As to As to ther expences in the King's yards, owing to the mode in which the estimates had been prepared, and the omissions of items of charge, which had crept into them in former years, without being properly or hecessarily connected with them, there was a reduction of 53,6601. But, as it was thought right that the ships now building in the merVOL. II.-1811. 2 X

many.