EXPLORATION FOR OIL IN ALASKA

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Doctor, when the members of this committee met you in Fairbanks last summer you were preparing to leave for an examination of the area south of Point Barrow where some drilling for oil has been undertaken. Do you have any comment, report, or statement to make to this committee, either on or off the record, about your exploration in that area?

Dr. WRATHER. The work that the Geological Survey conducted in Alaska was part of the Navy program of development of the naval petroleum reserve, which is a very tempting area for wildcatting and exploration.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. What do you mean by "tempting"? Dr. WRATHER. I mean that there are many favorable indications of oil in the area. It is a highly potential source of oil, despite the fact that it is located in the forbidding Arctic. As a matter of national policy of informing ourselves of our natural resources, I think that the area is well worth exploration until we know just how good or how bad it is.

We had, in the course of the season, about 15 technical men engaged in that operation in exploratory work.

We have learned, I think, quite a bit about the Arctic plain through the geophysical work done by the Navy and its integration with the geological work undertaken by the Geological Survey.

It still looks as tempting to me as a possible source of oil as it did before, and I think with several additional seasons of exploratory work along the lines that we have followed during the past season that we will know enough about the possibilities and potentialities of the area to more than compensate for the money expended by the Survey in its operations.

Of course, the Navy conducted the drilling, provided transportation, and so forth, and our work was confined to the activities which the Geological Survey is responsible for in any situation relating to mineral resources.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Have there been drilled more than one well in that area?

Dr. WRATHER. Only one has been drilled at Umiat, which was shut down at a depth of 1,860 feet.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. At Umiat?

Dr. WRATHER. Yes. It lies in the southeast side of the naval reserve. The well was down at a depth of 1,860 feet when they were compelled to suspend operations at the close of the last season because of the failure of the water supply. It was shut down until drilling can be resumed next summer.

While I did not see the cuttings personally, I understand that there were oil showings in at least five sands. These sands proved to be very tight and impermeable, and did not readily give up their oil. There was no evidence of commercial oil, but the geological work we did on the north flank of Brooks Range indicates that there are, perhaps, better, more porous sands to be found at a greater depth.

I do not think the oil possibilities of this structure have been properly demonstrated yet, and I think that it will require considerably deeper drilling. Only the one well has been drilled thus far. (Discussion off the record.)

Mr. JENSEN. I believe you used that new method to discover minerals and oils, the one that is used from airplanes. Did you use that instrument up there, and if so what were the results?

Dr. WRATHER. Yes. May I speak off of the record?

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Yes.

VOLCANIC DISTURBANCES IN ALASKA

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Doctor, if I remember correctly, you were also planning to visit one or more of the Aleutian Islands where, according to the reports, there had been a volcanic disturbance. Did you visit the islands and, if so, will you tell the committee what you found?

Dr. WRATHER. Yes, sir. I had a conference with General Emmons, in charge of the Alaskan Department, and he had a special interest in the situation in the Aleutians, because of the threat to some important Government installations-which were threatened by an active volcano.

We made a brief visit out there to see what the situation was and, after an investigation, it was decided there was no immediate threat to the installation. Since then, the volcano has subsided and there has not been a major catastrophe.

It happened that General Emmons, in his past experience, had had some pretty unfortunate encounters with volcanoes in Hawaii, and he was located in Alaska at the time Katmai blew its head off; so he was rather volcano conscious.

Nevertheless, the Aleutian chain in Alaska is one of the most active volcanic belts in the world. We know next to nothing about its volcanoes. It is highly important in any analysis of our national security in Alaska to properly evaluate the threat of these volcanoes to permanent installations. We certainly have no idea we could prevent a volcano from erupting; but, by careful analysis we should be able to advise the Army on the relative safety of its chosen sites. At the instance of General Emmons, and with Army support and funds, we have started an investigation of limited scope of the volcanic chain in Alaska and hope to incorporate such studies in future programs of the Survey. In fact, there is a small item in the proposed appropriation for that purpose. How far is this volcano, which you say blew the cap, from any Army or naval installation?

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma.

Dr. WRATHER. As I recall, it is 4 or 5 miles, Mr. Johnson, from one of the chain of airports extending along the Aleutians.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Well, 4 or 5 miles is dangerously close to a volcano.

Dr. WRATHER. Yes; it is. Lava, ash, ard all sorts of eruptive material are oftentimes carried for considerable distances.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Of course, you never know when a potential volcano will become active and it occurs to me that the Army should be very careful about constructing their posts and forts adjacent to one of those potential volcanoes.

PROBLEM OF FROZEN GROUND IN ALASKA

Dr. WRATHER. There was another geological problem I was interested in on that same trip; that is, the matter of frozen ground. A

substantial part of Alaska is frozen from the surface down and never thaws. In any kind of construction undertaken on frozen ground you must take into account the factors of differential thawing, creep of the soil, and so forth, induced either by the construction or by the heating of buildings, or else structures are apt to pull apart or suffer damage. In many instances in Alaska, proper consideration of this frozen ground problem was ignored in wartime construction, with serious results. We have been cooperating with the Army and Air Service on investigation of airfield sites, hospitals, etc., in Alaska, trying to analyze and get a better understanding of just what part frozen ground plays in construction problems. This problem is one of the rather odd offshoots of geologic work in the Arctic regions.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Are there any areas in the Aleutian Islands where the Army could find land that was not frozen?

Dr. WRATHER. My remarks on frozen ground really related more to northern Alaska than to the Aleutians, because the Aleutians lie to the south of the frozen belt.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. That is what I thought.

Dr. WRATHER. I was speaking primarily of the region north of Fairbanks, more than I was of southern Alaska.

FURTHER EXPLORATIONS FOR OIL IN ALASKA

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Now, you mentioned your surveys and explorations south of Point Barrow. Could you tell the committee if you have made any further explorations for oil in Alaska?

Dr. WRATHER. Yes, sir; we have. There is a belt along the south side of Alaska, including Katalla, Yakutat, and along Cook Inlet, in which there is favorable structure and some surface indications of oil in the form of oil seeps; and the rock strata involved are productive elsewhere in the world. We know practically nothing about the potentialities of this belt. There was a small field at Katalla that produced about 125,000 barrels of shallow oil, which was pretty well depleted before it was finally abandoned. We have done some work in that area to see if there are prospects for deeper drilling. The work we have done in southern Alaska has been on a very limited scale. I feel it should be extended to get a better grasp of what the prospects are in this southern belt.

There is a large region in central Alaska in which we do not think the possibilities of oil are important enough to devote particular attention to it at the present time. The two areas that seem to have promise are the southern region, as indicated on the map, and the north Arctic plain. One advantage of finding oil on the south side of the Territory is that it is accessible to shipping and can be reached at any season of the year; but if you find oil on the Arctic plain, there is always going to be the question of how to get it out economically.

REEMPLOYMENT OF VETERANS

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Now, I believe you said a few minutes ago that you had not refused to put any returning veteran to work; in fact, that every returning veteran who had requested reemployment had been reemployed?

Dr. WRATHER. That is right.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Has it been necessary for you to fire somebody else in order to do it?

Dr. WRATHER. No, sir; it has not. In most cases we have made a strenuous effort to hold places for the men we expected back.

Mr. JOHNSON. You do not mean to say you just put them back in order to put them on the pay roll?

Dr. WRATHER. Oh, no.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. But you really had something for them to do?

Dr. WRATHER. We have very essential work for them to do; it is not a question of made work at all, because we have had to expand some of our activities. We have had more work to do especially in the field of water resources and topography than we have been able to staff adequately.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. My own personal feeling is these men should be put back to work; that you should comply not only with the letter of the law, but also with the spirit of the law. If it is necessary to fire some civilian to do it, they ought to be put to work. On the other hand, I do not think any Member of Congress wants you to put anyone to work unless that person performs some useful service for which he is paid.

Dr. WRATHER. That is very definitely in our minds, Mr. Johnson. The Survey will not countenance made work at all. In some of our activities we have had an acute shortage of manpower, because of the inroads of the Army for military service.

QUESTION AS TO EMPLOYMENT OF UNNECESSARY AND UNQUALIFIED PERSONNEL

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Now, Doctor, I am going to ask you the question I have asked most of the people who have appeared before this committee, I believe; in fact, I am going to ask you three questions which I would like you to answer.

Do you have anyone on your pay roll who is not actually performing work essential to your activities?

Dr. WRATHER. I do not think we have one, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Well, you would know if you did have? Dr. WRATHER. I think I would; yes.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. If you were ordered to place someone on your pay roll by the Secretary of the Interior whom you had reason to believe or even suspected was not qualified to perform the work for which he or she was to be appointed, would you do so without protesting?

Dr. WRATHER. No, sir: I would not.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. If anyone were placed on your pay roll at the direction of the Secretary of the Interior, and performed no essential work for which he or she was paid, would you permit such a person to remain on your pay roll for 4 years and 11 months, or even for a shorter period of time?

Dr. WRATHER. I would not, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Are there any further questions?

EVALUATION OF WORK OF GEOLOGICAL SURVEY

Mr. KIRWAN. Doctor, it may be you are not in a position to answer my question, but the national debt in 1933 stood at $23,000,000,000. During the depression years, after coming out of the depression it had moved up by 1940, when we started to prepare for war, to $40,000,000.000. Then in the war period, we ran the debt up from 40 billion to 287 billion.

Now, here is one question I want to ask: Do you think if the Geological Survey and the departments had been better equipped we could have prevented some of that enormous debt? And what I mean when I say "better equipped" is down through the years; not 1, 2, 5, or 8 years, but the last 50 years. Do you think if you had been given more appropriations and could have made more study of America and her possessions, that the billions we wasted in the past war could have been prevented and we would have saved billions of dollars by having a broader knowledge of what we have in America? And as you just testified now, we know nothing about the Aleutians, you may say.

Do not you think we could have saved billions of dollars?

Dr. WRATHER. There is no question at all about it. It is a very difficult question to try to evaluate; I would not know how to write up the figures and produce a balance sheet. I do know a tragic amount of money was wasted from the lack of information which we might have supplied if we had had support throughout the years. Mr. KIRWAN. I am saying from the turn of the century. Dr. WRATHER. I quite agree with you.

Mr. KIRWAN. I did not know the full worth of this Geological Survey until I saw it come to my home. We produce 10 percent of all the steel in America in the town I happen to live in, and you people have performed a wonderful job out on the banks of the streams there. You have men with gages who tell the Army how many gallons of water they can release daily for the 3-billion industry in that District. Every morning your report is turned into the Army and then is wirelessed back to the Youngstown radio, telling the man at those dams how many gallons he shall release that day. But for that information going into the Army, it would have to slow down for lack of

water.

I realize that took two, or three, five, or maybe six expert men to get that information over to us at Youngstown, but it did save us. In 1939 we ran out of water when we could not avail ourselves of your service, and the industry had to suspend.

Dr. WRATHER. Mr. Kirwan, I am particularly happy to have you say that.

Mr. KIRWAN. I am in a position to say that, because I have visited the spot where those men are stationed and have watched them work. When I think of 1939 and the overdrafts of water by industry due to lack of proper information, I wonder what would have happened during the war if your men had not been in there to advise the steel industry and the Army how many gallons of water they could release a day, and how many gallons they could expect to have in this dam [indicatirg] at any one time.