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By Mr. TAYLER:
Q. And the second part of the chairman's question; do you know anything about the tickets?
A. Well, I have picked up tickets before at the ticket office for the chairman and
Q. In your name?
A. I have picked tickets up in my name. You know it is more convenient when you are buying them at the time.
Q. With whose credit card?
A. I don't remember, because I always recived the cards from the chairman.
Q. You received—now my questions are directed to this period January 3, 1965, to the present. During that time is it your testimony that Mr. Powell has given you a credit card and sent you to the Capitol airlines ticket office to purchase tickets in your name?
A. No; the chairman has not instructed me to purchase the tickets in my name. The reservations people were told we would be picking up tickets and I would go over and I would pick them up.
Q. What instructions did you have from Mr. Powell as to the name of the traveler that you should give to the airline to place on the
kets and she reser has not purchase Tedit cardime is it this per
tick the travelpstructions over and pls
A. I don't remember any specific instructions concerning that.
Q. Well, then, these instances such as the ones we have just shown you, such as the Miami trips which you say you didn't make, how did it come about that your name appears on the tickets as the traveler, if you know?
A. I wouldn't have any idea. Mr. Hays. Is it possible, Mr. Warren, that you might have been sent over to the ticket office and said there are tickets over there, go over and pick them?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir. Mr. Hays. And would you take a credit card with you when you did that or would you just-can you remember whether you always took a credit card or whether you just went over and picked up tickets that they said were there to pick up?
The WITNESS. No, sir; I can't remember. Mr. Hays. But you do remember having taken a credit card on some occasions? The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
By Mr. TAYLER: Did you ever look at the tickets that you picked up to see who the name of the traveler was on them?
A. In all truthfulness, I can't say yes or no, because I don't remember that clearly.
Q. Did you ever pick up any tickets on which you were listed as the traveler when you knew you were not scheduled to make the trip and in fact you didn't make the trip?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. And you can't account for the fact that these 31 tickets, exhibits 1, 2, and 3, show you traveling or purport to show you traveling between here and Miami?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. When you went to New York and stayed with friends, give us the names of the friends you stayed with.
A. I have stayed with Mr. Odeil Clark, who is the chief investigator; stayed at his home.
Q. What is his address:
Q. Well, you certainly remember whether Mr. Clark was there. Does he have a house, or an apartment?
A. No; he has an apartment.
Living room, kitchen, and bath? A. Right. Q. What is the address of that apartment? A. 132 West 138th Street. Q. That is also the chairman's apartment in New York, is it not? A. I wouldn't know, sir.
Q. Well, if it is one bedroom and you would spend the night there, you would know whether anybody was in the bedroom with you.
A. Well, I have never spent the night there while the chairman was there.
Q. Or while Mr. Clark was there?
A. Mr. Clark has been there on occasions, I am sure, but I didn't want to say, because I can't remember specifically when he was there and when he wasn't.
Q. Is Mr. Clark married?
Q. And you would stay in the apartment up there and that is why you wouldn't claim per diem, is that your testimony?
A. Correct, sir.
Q. Now, it seems to me that you would recall the number of times that you have stayed at the Clark apartment.
A. Well, the reason I can't recall the number of times I have stayed is because I have stayed there frequently. I have been to New York to visit with them when I have gone on my own for my own reasons, when I have been visiting other friends and relatives there.
Q. What other friends would you spend the night with?
A. I have always stayed at the Clarks'. As I said, I visited other people but I have stayed with them.
Q. In other words, any overnight trip up there you have always stayed at the Clark apartment?
Q. Now, on one trip you put in a claim for per diem, September 30, 1965.
A. I don't recall—I don't remember anything about that.
By Mr. O'CONNOR:
The WITNESS. Well, I must retract that. I have driven up before. I have driven up with Mr. Clark but I don't remember any voucher.
By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. While we are getting the voucher we will proceed. Did you go up on committee business each time you went up? A. I did, sir. Q. And when—where would you transact this committee business?
A. Well, whenever I have gone there, it has been during times of hearings or investigations or something like that.
Mr. Hays. This is no good. It doesn't have a signature on it.
Mr. O'CONNOR. Can we get the one with the signature? Let's send one of the boys over to get it and we will recall him.
Mr. DICKINSON. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)
By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Can you explain to us why your trips to New York, principally, were on Sundays and Mondays?
A. Well, all I know, sir, is that being in the chairman's office, working for the chairman, I was instructed to do something, and I did it. I mean I didn't question him or his reason for it. As I said, during the times that I went to New York, if I can remember correctly, there were hearings or investigations going on and there was a matter of papers being transacted between the two places. Beyond that, I don't--I haven't any knowledge.
Q. Did you take papers up to be signed or something?
A. Well, when I would take them to New York, if it was during the time of a hearing or something, I was usually met by someone.
Q. Well, were the hearings held on Sundays?
A. I am not saying that I am going up there for hearings. I am saying whatever was done was done in connection with hearings or investigations.
Q. All right.
By Mr. TAYLER: Q. Mr. Warren, with respect to the three trips to Miami, again, would it refresh your recollection as to how those tickets were issued if I told you that they were purchased on Mr. Stone's credit card?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you recall any of the circumstances under which those tickets were purchased, now that you know that fact?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did Mr. Stone ever send you to the Capital ticket office with his credit card and tell you to buy any tickets to Miami in your name?
A. I have been to the ticket office, Mr. Stone has sent me there, but I don't remember whether the tickets were for Miami or where, and I don't recall his telling me to purchase any tickets in my name.
Q. But you have gone to the ticket office with Mr. Stone's credit card to purchase tickets? A. Yes; I have.
By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Mr. WAGGONNER. I have a question or two, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. WAGGONNER. Mr. Warren, does Mr. Powell to your knowledge have an office in New York?
The WITNESS. Yes, the chairman does have a congressional office in New York. Mr. WAGGONNER. Do you know where that office is? The WITNESS. I can't remember the address. Mr. WAGGONNER. Have you ever been to it?
rememberhile and the I am not resou had
The WITNESS. I believe I have, sir. The reason I say I can't remember the address is because I have been away from here for quite a while and there are a lot of things that I don't remember.
Mr. WAGGONNER. I am not especially interested in a specific street address, but I was interested if you had ever been to his congressional office there in New York City.
The WITNESS. Yes, sir; I have.
The Witness. Are you referring to a congressional office?
The WITNESS. I don't know. There is an office in the church. I can't say it is his congressional office because, as I said, I have been to his congressional office, but there is an office there for the chairman. Mr. WAGGONNER. In the church?
The WITNESS. Yes. As the pastor of the church he has an office there.
Mr. WagGONNER. To your knowledge does Mr. Clark have a Washington home?
The WITNESS. Yes, Mr. Clark does. Mr. WAGGONNER. Where does Mr. Clark's wife live, in Washington or New York?
The WITNESS. Mr. Clark's wife lives in New York, sir. Mr. WAGGONNER. You said that you had on occasion gone from the office to the airlines ticket office in the Capitol to actually physically pick up airline tickets. Who gave you your instructions on occasions such as that to go get these tickets? . Was it the Congressman himself or someone else
The WITNESS. Well, over a period of time, the trips have been frequent. The Congressman has told me, he will say, "John, go over and pick up some tickets.” Or Mr. Stone might tell me to go over and pick up some tickets.
Mr. WAGGONNER. No further questions.
Mr. Hays. We might have that voucher in the next few minutes and we would like to have you back for a few minutes.
You may be excused. (Witness excused.) Mr. O'CONNOR, Át this time I would like to put Mr. Gray back on the witness table so as to clarify for the record certain things.
Mr. Hays. Mr. Gray has previously been sworn.
ROBERT D. GRAY was recalled, having been previously duly sworn, and testified further as follows:
By Mr. O'CONNOR. Q. Mr. Gray, during your audit of the payrolls and vouchers, did you determine the status of Miss Corrine Huff?