man Augustus Hawkins' office to make these arrangements. She will remember this, because she is the one who selected this agency, you see. And as to how it was paid for, I don't remember. She may, you see. Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes.

The WINESS. But if I had this sort of thing in my files I would have remembered it, but I didn't.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Well, is there any question in your mind about being reimbursed twice for this; in other words, somebody else paying for the ticket and you making claim for the $355?

A. I couldn't have been reimbursed twice, no.

Q. You weren't?

A. No.

Q. Well, that is the subject of the inquiry there.

A. Oh, I see. No, I wouldn't have been. And I would have remembered receiving that large an amount of money.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Yes. I have no further questions.
Mr. HAYS. Mr. Waggonner? Mr. Dickinson?

Mr. DICKINSON. Well, on this one item-you think it is likely that through Congressman Hawkins' office that all three of these were charged and you told them that you would put in a voucher and when the check came to you, you just endorsed it to the airline travel agency and you would have no record of it?

The WITNESS. I don't remember the transaction, but I do remember this much: that she arranged everything. I may have signed it but I don't remember explicitly doing so. However, if I did, However, if I did, that agency will most likely have the check in their files.

Mr. DICKINSON. Let me suggest this: Mrs. Mink and Mr. Hawkins are both on your Education and Labor Committee?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir, they were. They are.

Mr. DICKINSON. Would you see if you can find out, go back

through your records or

The WITNESS. I wouldn't have them in my records.

Mr. DICKINSON. You don't have anything on this?

The WITNESS. My records aren't that well kept. I never dreamed

this thing would come about. But they will be well kept in the future.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. If you were paid by personal check you would have your canceled check, would you not?

A. I would have my canceled check, yes.

Q. Would you check your canceled checks for that period. What is the date of the travel?

Mr. GRAY. March 26 through 31.

The WITNESS. Yes.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. And if you do have a canceled check, if you would let us know so we could get a Xeroxed copy of it put in the record to clear this item. A. All right.

Mr. HAYS. Could it be possible, would this refresh your memory any, Mr. Anderson: Could it have been possible that this voucher was made out and the checks were collected by the committee and they

asked you to come in and endorse it and then they sent it down to the agency?

The WITNESS. I don't remember doing this, no. But I do remember this much: That after doing things this way, it was a very awkward transaction. We just decided not to do it that way again, and from then on I had charge of travel arrangements for much of the charges in the sense that I designated the cities for the poverty investigations and also discussed with the chief clerk the types of arrangements. That was to October 18, 1965. Then we didn't-we decided never to do it that way again. I remembered that instance because that was the wrong way to do it.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. All of your other travel was obtained apparently through credit cards of the committee?

A. Of the chief clerk, that is right.

Q. And this is an unusual transaction?

A. It was an unusual transaction.

Q. That is the reason we are inquiring into it.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman, may these be admitted as exhibits into the record? (See Anderson Exhibit 2).

Mr. HAYS. Without objection.

Did you have a question?

Mr. WAGGONNER. Yes.

Earlier you made reference, Mr. Anderson, to a statement by Mr. O'Connor, counsel for this committee, that his statement clarified a mystery. What did you have reference to?

The WITNESS. Well, the primary mystery was the 14 trips. This is all I mean. Fourteen trips without claiming subsistence, I am told now, some of which were made without claiming subsistence. And also this was a mystery, too, this particular voucher in which I was paid $355, apparently signed for. But now it is clear to, that once saw the GO agency voucher, I realized what had happened. I remembered how that transaction may have-Juanita-I forgot her last name-made the purchases of this.

I don't know how, but she made the purchases for Congresswoman Mink, Congressman Hawkins, and myself.

Mr. WAGGONNER. Is this, then, the awkwardness and methods to which you have alluded?

some.

The WITNESS. No. I meant that to go through an agency-I remember it was just a troublesome the whole thing was troubleThere was I mean this particular, the whole trip was troublesome arranging, because we had to delay it several times. That meant that we had to call the agency. And it was because the Elementary and Secondary Education Act was on the floor; we had to call the agency, the agency was angry because it had to change the reservations for the hotels, change the tickets again and again. And so we just decided that that was the wrong way to do it.

Mr. WAGGONNER. I have no further questions.
Mr. HAYS. Mr. Devine?

Mr. DEVINE. No questions.

Mr. JONES. No questions.

Mr. HAYS. Thank you very much, Mr. Anderson.

I CERTIFY that the above bill is correct and just, and that payment therefor has not been received. *SIGN ORIGINAL ONLY

(Bill must be completely filled in before certi

fication by payee, and there must not be any erasure or alteration whatever.)

By

I CERTIFY that the above articles have been received in good condition and in the quality and quantity above specified, or the services performed as stated, and that they are in accordance with the orders therefor, that the prices charged are just, reasonable, and in accordance with agreement.

AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE

WAR ON POVERTY

ADAM C. POWELL

Chairman, Committee on Education &

Where a voucher is certified by a corporation or company, the name of the person writing the corporate or company name, as well as the capacity in which he signs, must appear. Example: "Chicago Edison Company, per John Smith," Secretary or Treasurer, or member of firm, as the case may be. 10~80743-8 GPO

Mr. O'CONNOR. You will furnish that canceled check if you find it The WITNESS. I will look through my records and I will tell you i I can find it.

Mr. HAYS. That is all.

(Witness excused.)

Mr. HAYS. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. HAYS. Is there any other business before we adjourn for lunch? Mr. DICKINSON. Before we adjourn, what do you have planned for this afternoon?

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. HAYS. The committee stands adjourned until 2 o'clock. (Whereupon, at 12:34 p.m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene at 2 p.m., the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. HAYS. Rise and be sworn.

GEORGE G. GRAYSON, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

Mr. HAYS. Would you state your name?

The WITNESs. George G. Grayson.

Mr. HAYS. Your address?

The WITNESS. 6100 Southwest 29th Street, Miami, Fla.

Mr. HAYS. Your title?

The WITNESS. Director of revenue accounting, Eastern Airlines. Mr. HAYS. Would you state the name of your counsel?

Mr. RUSSELL. Mr. Chairman, I am Harold L. Russell, of Atlanta, Ga. Our firm is general counsel for Eastern.

Mr. HAYS. Mr. Grayson, you appear before this committee in response to a subpena duces tecum. Your testimony will be in executive session unless you request that it be in public session. If your appearance is in executive session, the public or press will not be admitted to the hearing room pursuant to paragraph 26, House of Representatives rule 11. Your testimony may not be released or used in public session without the consent of this committee. Of course, if your appearance is in public session, you understand, the press could come in. Do you choose which way would you like it?

The WITNESS. Executive session.

Mr. HAYS. You have counsel with you and we have already included his name in the record.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Mr. Grayson, what is your capacity with Eastern Airlines?
A. Director of revenue accounting.

Q. Where do you office?

A. In Miami.

Q. What is the address in Miami?

A. 36th Street Airport.

Q. Miami, Fla.?

A. Yes.

Q. Eastern Airlines has the credit card account for the House of Representatives in connection with air travel, do they not?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Most of the travel booked, air travel booked by Representatives and members of the staff is on Eastern Airlines credit cards?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. A question has come up in connection with the hearings that the committee is conducting as to the distinction between a "Q" card and a card issued to an individual's name. Could you explain that difference?

A. The "Q" card permits the card holder to purchase transportation for anyone. The personal card permits him to charge transportation just for his own individual personal travel.

Q. On the "Q" card, can as many as 20 airline tickets be purchased at once for various individuals?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What requirement of the airline is there as to the identity of the persons that are going to be traveling on those tickets?

A. None, sir.

Q. Can the purchaser supply the issuing agent with any name of a traveler?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is not necessary that the person in whose name that ticket is issued actually perform the travel?

A. The ticket is not transferrable.

Q. I understand it is not transferrable, but does the airline have any control as to whether the traveler indicated as John Smith is actually John Smith?

A. No, sir.

Q. You have indicated it is not transferrable. Does Eastern have any control as to whether traveler A purchases two tickets for he and