The WITNESS. At any time that I sent it she was in Puerto Rico. Mr. NEDZI. Did you ever send her mail anyplace else?

The WITNESS. I have never sent her mail other than Puerto Rico. Mr. NEDZI. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. HAYS. Mrs. Harris, allegation has been made that this committee is making scapegoats out of the staff. Do you feel that you have been made a scapegoat in any way by this committee?

The WITNESS. By your committee?

Mr. HAYS. Yes, ma'am.

The WITNESS. No, sir, I don't. And I do appreciate really the consideration you gave me yesterday in allowing me to not sit here and to go back to the office. I didn't feel that I was a scapegoat.

Mr. HAYS. Do you feel maybe you might have been made a scapegoat in some way or other by having your name used without your knowledge?

The WITNESS. Yes, I do. I don't like it. At this point I don't see that there is anything I can do except personally not like it.

Mr. HAYS. I think that is fair enough. Certainly there is no imputation against you or any indication of any wrongdoing on your part. It appears that your name was used without your knowledge and you have so testified, isn't that right?

The WITNESS. Right, sir.

Mr. HAYS. Any other questions? [No response.]

Mr. HAYS. Thank you very much, Mrs. Harris. You are discharged from the subpena.

The WITNESS. Thank you.

Mr. HAYS. I want to say off the record

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Anderson.

(Witness excused.)

Mr. HAYS. Mr. Anderson, will you state your full name and address for the record.

Mr. ANDERSON. Donald Louis Anderson, 709-A Delaware Avenue SW., Washington.

Mr. HAYS. Will you stand and raise your right hand.

DONALD L. ANDERSON, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

By Mr. O'Connor:

Q. Mr. Anderson, you are employed on the staff of Representative Powell?

A. No. I am technically on a leave of absence with the Citizens Crusade Against Poverty, and have been since April 1.

Q. April 1 of 1966?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you at one time employed on the staff of Congressman Powell?

A. Yes, I was the previous 2 years, approximately 2 years and 1 month.

Mr. HAYS. Just a moment. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. HAYS. You may proceed.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. When were you employed on Representative Powell's staff? A. Approximately March 5, I believe, 1964.

Q. Until when?

A. April 1, 1966.

Q. And what was your position on the staff?

A. I held several nominal positions, first as assistant counsel, then as counsel, then as they called me general counsel for the Ad Hoc Subcommittee on Poverty, beginning on about August or September of 1964-1965.

Q. Let's

A. And education counsel sometime between that period.

Q. All right. All of our questions will be related to the period January 3, 1965, until the time you departed from the committee, during the 89th Congress.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, in connection with your duties was it necessary for you to perform official travel?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And to what degree and to what extent would you perform this travel?

A. I traveled extensively between January 3 and the time I left, all over the country, out West several times. And I was made responsible for conducting the investigations in poverty before we received the appropriation to do so. As a matter of fact, in September of 1964, the chairman told me to birddog poverty and, of course, I did.

Q. In connection with your travels for the committee did you submit vouchers for subsistence and out-of-pocket expenses?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you do that on all occasions of your travel?

A. Well, I was mystified by your the allegations in the audit, because it would have been an extraordinary oversight for me not to submit a voucher for travel.

I

Q. The audit developed that you made six trips to New York City during this period in which you claimed subsistence, and then there were six trips to New York City in which you claimed no subsistence. A. I made considerably more than six trips during that period. never remember not having claimed subsistence for trips to New York. Q. Could you say for the record that on each of the trips which you took on official business that you submitted a voucher for subsistence?

A. I will say that as a matter of habit, and I don't want to get myself in that box yet because I may not I will say as a matter of habit it would have been an oversight for me not to have claimed. subsistence.

Q. But it was your practice?

A. It was my practice.

Q. Whenever you took a trip you submitted a voucher?

A. As far as I can remember, to claim subsistence.

And if you have the vouchers for those trips, I would like to see

them. I would recognize my own signature.

72-404 0-67- -15

Q. I have a voucher here which is voucher No. 7206, in which you incurred expenses while on a field trip for the ad hoc subcommittee, the Far West task force.

A. I made that trip with Congressman Hawkins and Congresswoman Mink.

Q. And where was that trip to?

A. It was to, as I recall, in March of 1965

Q. March 27 to April 1, 1965?

A. Yes. As I recall-may I see the voucher?

Q. Yes. If you will mark that "Anderson exhibit 1."

By

I CERTIFY that the above bill is correct and just, and that payment therefor has not been received. *SIGN ORIGINAL ONLY

Do

I CERTIFY that the above articles have been received in good condition and in the quality and quantity above specified, or the services performed as stated, and that they are in accordance with the orders therefor; that the prices charged are just, reasonable, and in accordance with agreement.

• Where a voucher is certified by a corporation or company, the name of the person writing the corporate or company name, as well as the capacity in which he signs, must appear. Example: "Chicago Edison Company, per John Smith," Secretary or Treasurer, or member of firm, as the case may be.

16-50743-8 GPO

(The above referred to document was marked "Anderson exhibit 1"

and received in evidence.)

The WITNESS. Yes; this is my signature. Those trips were to Oregon, and I am doing it from memory. I haven't-my records, unfortunately, are not as complete as they should be. But as I recall, the trips were to Oregon, to San Francisco, to Los Angeles, to Sacramento.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

That voucher indicates that you were not in Washington, D.C., on March 28, 1965, is that correct?

A. Yes; it does.

Q. And would you so testify that you were not in Washington, D.Č., on March 28, 1965?

A. Well, I know what you are trying to say, that during the same period I

Q. Well, I will be very frank with you. There is an airline ticket with your name on it, on the New York shuttle, Washington, D.C., to New York.

A. Could I see the voucher for that?

Q. Yes; we will show that to you. Yes.

May we have Dargans No. 3, I think it is. I believe that is the exhibit.

Mr. TAYLER. No; it isn't No. 3.

Mr. HAYS. It is those four tickets that were issued on that Sunday. I don't know what number it is, but we are referring to Dargans exhibits, anyway.

By Mr. O'Connor:

Q. You might examine this voucher at the same time. No; just to look at it.

A. Well, this also is my signature.

Q. On the record, Mr. Anderson, I show you Dargans exhibit No. 2, which is an in-shuttle flight ticket, New York to Washington, to New York, either way, dated March 28, 1965, and ask if that is your signature on the ticket.

A. No. Which one would be mine?

Mr. HAYS. Up in the upper left-hand corner.
The WITNESS. No; that is not my signature.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. Isn't that "Donald Anderson"?

A. Yes, that is; but that is not my signature. As you will see, my a's are almost like s's.

Q. Do you have any knowledge as to who would sign your name to a ticket such as that?

A. No; I don't.

Q. Were you aware that your name was being signed to various travel tickets?

A. I was not; no.

Q. Have you ever heard that your name was being used in connection with travels?

A. No.

Q. I now show you voucher-let me see the voucher number on that, please voucher No. 7681, in the amount of $355.32, and ask you if you can recall the purpose of that voucher?

A. No; I cannot. I cannot. May I see the other voucher again, please?

Q. It would appear that that $300 voucher was for the purchase of an airline travel ticket in connection with your trip.

A. Well, of course, I don't remember this transaction but yes, yes. For $355

Q. Could it be, Mr. Anderson, that you purchased your travel ticket to the west coast with your own funds and are claiming reimbursement on that particular voucher? I might suggest to you that the reason we asked the question is we have no travel ticket from the committee_accounts, credit cards, reflecting that trip that you took there, and I am just suggesting that the $322 voucher was to reimburse you for the airline ticket. Do you recall purchasing an airline ticket from your own funds?

A. All I can say is I don't recall it. I could have done it. I might have. I know things are done in this way. I just don't remember this transaction.

Q. Well, in connection with your airline travel, was there ever a time that you didn't acquire the ticket through an airline credit card? A. I didn't always; yes, there have been such occasions; yes. But I don't remember that amount, although it may have happened. I don't remember spending that much money for a ticket.

Mr. HAYS. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. HAYS. Can I ask you one other thing: Is this your signature? The WITNESS. They are both my signatures.

By Mr. O'Connor:

Q. No question about the signatures?

A. Yes; that is right.

Mr. HAYS. If the invoice is attached, that is it, that explains it. The WITNESS. Well, that would be it, but I just don't remember that amount. But I made a great many trips last year and I just— I don't remember all of those trips in detail. I do know that I did pay money out of my pocket.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:

Q. We have only one substantial trip in 1965, that was AtlantaTallahassee, Tallahassee-Atlanta, Atlanta-District of Columbia, which you probably went down to Tallahassee and had to go through Atlanta. That is the way your routing was. The others were just New York and Washington.

A. Well, now-of course, you don't have an account of all of them because, for instance in the New England States, in September I traveled

Mr. DEVINE. If Congressman Hawkins and Congresswoman Mink made the same trip, they should be reflected?

The WITNESS. Yes; I was with them. I was the staffman on the tickets.

Mr. DICKINSON. Did you pay for them, their tickets, perchance? The WITNESS. That could have been it.

Mr. DICKINSON. That could be it.

The WITNESS. But I don't remember it. I do remember there was a lot of confusion as to the time we were going to leave, because