Page images
PDF
EPUB

The CHAIRMAN. We cannot get through this morning. We cannot even get through with you this morning, because the House is meeting in 5 minutes, and if there is no objection, I am going to adjourn the committee to meet tomorrow morning at 10:30; and then after tomorrow morning, I am going to stagger this committee and meet every other day, or skip a day in between, so the subcommittee we have on the extension of the 5-year term insurance policies can have the committee room. So if you will be here tomorrow moring, we will continue with you.

(Thereupon, a recess was taken in the hearing until 10:30 a. m., Wednesday, Feb. 24, 1937.)

TO AMEND CERTAIN LAWS AND VETERANS' REGULATIONS AFFECTING WORLD WAR VETERANS AND THEIR DEPENDENTS

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1937

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON WORLD WAR VETERANS' LEGISLATION,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 a. m., Hon. John E. Rankin (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. When we adjourned yesterday, Mr. Cliff was on the stand but had not finished his statement. Will you resume your statement, Mr. Cliff?

STATEMENT OF E. V. CLIFF-Resumed

Mr. CLIFF. It is my recollection, Mr. Chairman, that I had reached the point yesterday at the time the chairman adjourned the committee, when I had called attention of the committee to the estimates on Public, No. 484, which had shown that at the time of the passage of the act, the Veterans' Administration had anticipated there would be 13,000 veterans whose dependents would be eligible to apply under that act.

I also pointed out to you that nearly a year following that there had only been 1,688 dependents to apply under that act and that at the present time, as nearly as my associate, Captain Miller, and I have been able to determine, there are approximately 9,000 beneficiaries.

Now, I want to call the attention of the committee to the fact that the estimate of 13,000 was of veterans; the figure of 9,000 refers to the beneficiaries, not just the veterans. It would naturally be assumed that in numbers the beneficiaries would by much greater than the number of veterans. But the applicants so far under this act have not been as great in number as was anticipated at the time of the passage of Public 484.

The CHAIRMAN. It was estimated that that would be the number the first year, was it not?

Mr. CLIFF. That is right, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. And this is the second or the third year after the passage of that bill?

Mr. CLIFF. This is the third year.

The CHAIRMAN. Did they estimate what the number would be at the end of the third year?

Mr. CLIFF. I do not have that estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. How much did they estimate the cost would be for the first year?

Mr. CLIFF. The estimated cost, Mr. Chairman, was $4,628,250.

The CHAIRMAN. And what was the cost?

Mr. CLIFF. The cost at the time that this report was made was $652,664.

The CHAIRMAN. Or less than one-sixth of what was estimated?
Mr. CLIFF. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what I am trying to get at.

Mr. CLIFF. I do not have the figures. As I stated yesterday, I do not have the figures of the cost at this time, but I assume that the Veterans' Administration will submit figures.

The CHAIRMAN. Are those the hearings that we held at that time [referring to books]?

Mr. CLIFF. Yes. These are the figures, as they Chairman will remember, that were given by Past Commander Hayes at that time, of the cost as estimated.

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, if you will forgive the interruption, these were not the hearings, as I am sure Mr. Cliff will explain, on Public, 484. You will recall the circumstances of that.

The CHIARMAN. What I want is the hearings on Public, 484; I do not remember what the number of the bill was.

Mr. CLIFF. There were some other estimates given, I believe, in But it will be 1932, Mr. Chairman, with reference to H. R. 7109. recalled that those estimates, I believe, were around $20,000,000. But that bill provided for brothers and sisters, and for mothers and fathers and additional dependents, which is not provided for in the present bill now before this committee.

I am calling the committee's attention to this so that there will not be any confusion, as far as we can avoid it, with regard to the estimates of cost of this legislation.

Now, in calling the committee's attention to these figures, let me state again that I have no desire to impugn either the honesty or the good faith of the Veterans' Administration, so far as their estimates are concerned. But I do wish to call the committee's attention to the fact that it is very difficult to get a really accurate estimate as to the cost of this legislation.

After 3 years the total costs have not come to what was thought would be the bill during the first year of its life. Certainly no fault can be found, so far as the intent is concerned, with these estimates of cost. I have some reluctance in mentioning them in view of my regard for the Administrator and his assistants. I do so only to sustain the thought that we should primarily consider the question of merit.

Give us this relief. The cost will certainly not be greater or nearly as great as they would have been under your bill H. R. 7109, which you had here during the Seventy-second Congress. That bill carried benefits for dependent fathers and mothers of deceased veterans. This one does not, although I do not conceal my knowledge of or sympathy for our older people, and particularly for the wonderful Gold Star Mothers whose insurance is shortly to expire. I feel that shortly something will have to be done for these mothers. The honor of war and its sadness will persist through life for them. It was not men or soldiers as such who were snatched from their arms. their babies.

It was

Then, further commenting on H. R. 7109, it carried no income provision. The present bill does. In some respects the presently sug

gested rates are lower; for example as to children. These allowances have been fixed upon a most modest scale. They should be higher, of course, but we can do our best with what you and the country can give us.

In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, of the statement which I have made before this committee, I wish to call your attention to the fact that since we first started recommending to your committee and to the Congress the passage of an act that might take care of the widows and orphans of the World War in order that they might be put upon an equality with the widows and orphans of other wars, our country and the Congress and the people have become very conscious of the requirements of social security involving all of the citizens of our country.

It seems to me that I might say to this committee in conclusion that if our country has become, and justifiably so, conscious of social security with a view of taking care of the economic casualties of the World War and of the conditions which followed, we are not asking too much, we of the American Legion, when we ask you to take care of the real casualties of the World War who have suffered not only because of the service of their dear ones, but who also, along with the economic casualties which followed that great struggle, have suffered with them. So this morning may I bespeak on behalf of the American Legion your very serious consideration of this bill which is now before you, providing for some compensation for the widows and orphans of the veterans of the World War.

And finally, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the courtesy shown me and for this opportunity to appear before your committee on behalf of the American Legion. I have received the same kindly consideration which we always receive at your hands, and may I say to you that we appreciate it very, very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Cliff; we are very glad to have had you with us. Some of the gentlemen of the committee may wish to ask some questions. I know that I want to ask you some questions.

I think the reason for the discrepancy in the estimates that you mentioned, or one of the reasons, was that they had overlooked the fact that a great many of these widows had remarried. They had overlooked the fact that a great many of them are dead. Also a great many of these veterans had no children. I think that possibly accounts for I would not say the error in the estimate-but the failure of the costs to come up to their estimates.

As I say, a great many of these widows have remarried. Some of them are in good circumstances and do not need any compensation. Many of these men were unmarried and died. Many of them left no children at all, and besides, there are children who have become grown up and who would not come under the provisions of the bill at all.

So, taking those facts into consideration, I would not think this presents such a violently expensive proposition, considering all the phases of it.

Mr. CLIFF. I think, Mr. Chairman, it is going to be very difficult, considering the points which you have just raised, to make an estimate even today of what the cost of this legislation will be. It is difficult to tell, as you have said, how many of these veterans had children, or to estimate how many of them had no children; how many of the widows have passed on, and just exactly how many beneficiaries there will be. We are calling this to the attention of the committee, may I repeat,

« PreviousContinue »