The accumulation, the digesting, the use of data by the Federal Government has such a time lapse that it really does not have any useful purpose as far as seasonable labor is concerned. It can, perhaps be improved with respect to those who are here on a yearround basis.

Senator THURMOND. Is it your thinking that the Governors of the respective States should deal directly with the Mexican authorities about these laborers or should they make a request to the Labor Department of the Federal Government who would then deal with the Mexican authorities?

Senator MCCLURE. I would prefer the latter, of course, if, as a matter of fact, the Department of Labor would do so in good faith. Our experience with the Department of Labor has not been very happy with respect to good faith efforts to assist.

Senator THURMOND. The Governors of the States really know the situation in their respective States better than bureaucrats in the Federal Government do, don't they?

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir. There is no question about that. Senator THURMOND. Aren't they more responsive to the will of the people?

Senator MCCLURE. They have to be more responsive to the will of the people, whether it is in an East Coast State or my State. That includes the domestic laborers who may feel threatened by the presence of alien laborers. I would think the Governors of the States have the opportunity to be more responsive than the Federal Government with a more sensitive concern for the local conditions.

Senator THURMOND. Authorities who are closer to a problem can come nearer to understanding the problem and comprehending it and coming up with a sound solution better than those who are far away, can they not?

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir. As a matter of fact, if people are dissatisifed with what they are doing, they are a lot easier to find and grab by the lapel if you have to do so.

Senator THURMOND. I believe you recommended that the Governor of each State would be responsible for establishing rules and regulations governing labor certification for temporary alien workers.

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Do you feel that should be left for the Governor, too, or should he just make a request that they need so many aliens and leave that to the Federal Government?

Senator MCCLURE. Again, I think the Governor can look at local circumstances, such as the availability of housing, the demand for labor, and can work with local agencies, not just Federal agencies. He, of course, can work with Federal agencies as well. He can see the conditions under which the seasonal labor might be housed, under which he might work, and the conditions and terms of employment can be varied more easily by an approach from the Governor at the State level than they would be by the Federal Government 2,500 miles away, in my case.

Senator THURMOND. In other words, the Governor would have the responsibility for labor certification.

Senator MCCLURE. Labor certification, the conditions of housing, the terms of employment, and the condition of work.

I recognize that the Federal Government has some responsibilities in that area, too.

Senator THURMOND. The Governor of a State not only knows his situation better in the State than Federal authorities would, but would he not be less subject to the pressures of the big labor bosses in this country than our Labor Department?

Senator MCCLURE. I think there is no question that the Labor Department has not served to help us in making certain that we have available labor at the times when we need it.

When we had our own Department of Labor make the certification that there was a shortage of this labor, they did make that certification after a very exhausting study with a due and sensitive concern for the rights of laborers who reside in Idaho. However, when it got to the U.S. Department of Labor it was lost completely because they did not have any concern. They were marching to a different drummer.

Senator THURMOND. Isn't it a matter of fact-and we might as well admit it-that the big labor unions have recommended and placed many of their people in the Labor Department

Senator MCCLURE. There is no question of that

Senator THURMOND [continuing]. Who might take an interest that is partial that way rather than representing the public?

Senator MCCLURE. Mr. Chairman, there is no question that the Department of Labor represents the views of organized labor as articulated by the union leaders much more than the views of the laboring man and woman in this country.

Senator THURMOND. I believe you brought out the point, too, that in some cases welfare benefits are so high and unemployment benefits are so high that many people are encouraged to stay on welfare and unemployment rather than to work.

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir.

That is particularly true of seasonal labor. While you would think perhaps the person who was on welfare or receiving some kind of benefits from government would be more likely to take seasonal work, it is quite the contrary because the seasonal work can disqualify them. Then they have to requalify at the end of the season. However, if they go into permanent employment, then they perhaps have more incentive to remove themselves from the unemployment rolls.

Yes, it is generally true, but I think it is even more true for seasonal work.

Senator THURMOND. You make the point that if the farmer does not hire aliens to do the work he will not get it done. In other words, the local people are not willing to do a lot of these tasks. Therefore, aliens who come in anxious to get jobs will do the work.

Senator MCCLURE. It is compounded of two things: Those who for one reason or another do not desire to work but, more importantly, it is due to the fluctuation of the total demand for labor. The best workers get permanent employment. They do not seek the temporary, seasonal work. College kids help; high school young people help. They are not as pushed toward seasonal work as they used to be.

When the employment opportunities fluctuate dramatically, as they do in an agricultural community where is is seasonal work, there simply are not enough locals to take up all of the slack. You have to look for people to come in seeking that work. In recent years we have not had enough of those to make certain that there was enough labor there when the farmer had to have the work done.

To the farmer his whole livelihood is tied up in the crop. If there is any point in the year when that crop fails totally, his whole year's income is wiped out.

Senator THURMOND. It varies timewise and seasonally.

Senator McCLURE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. What crops in Idaho do you have that are very perishable that have to have the labor and have it just when the crops are ready?

Senator MCCLURE. It is not just harvesting time. One of the most critical needs is during irrigation. That means every one of our irrigated acres, and we have over 3 million acres of irrigated land. Every crop that is grown on that has to have water. Those crops are grown in a desert environment in Idaho. Our annual rainfall, in those areas is probably 8 or 9 inches per year, and that all occurs at other than the growing season. There is no rain that comes during the growing season. It is totally dependent upon irrigation. That means the work must be done during that period or the crop is gone.

Senator THURMOND. In our area, of course, we have very perishable crops, such as peaches, tomatoes, and crops such as that. They have to have attention just at the right time. If they are not harvested just at the right time, the farmer has lost his entire crop for the season.

Senator MCCLURE. That is true in our area, too. Some of the crops are less perishable than others. Nevertheless, when the time comes to harvest a crop, it has to be harvested. Some of the dry grains can stand in the field a little bit longer without total loss. It is the perishable commodities, such as orchards, soft fruits, the potato harvest which goes for several weeks during the fall, which require seasonal peaks of labor as well.

Senator THURMOND. As I understand your position, you favor aliens doing the work but you favor bringing in aliens temporarily who are not permanent residents, because they are willing to work and willing to do the job. Then when they are finished with the temporary work, they can return to their homes. You do object to the aliens coming here unlawfully and competing with Americans for permanent jobs. Is that correct?

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir.

Let me say this at the outset-and I think this is a given fact which I do not want to overlook. I prefer having American laborers do the work. It is only when there is a certification of need that cannot be met by the American worker that we ought to have a program by which we can certify the need, make arrangements for a suitable number of alien workers to come and fill that need under supervised conditions and under prescribed pay, and then they can return to their homes at the end of that period of time.

Senator THURMOND. You only favor temporary aliens if there are not other people to do the work?

Senator MCCLURE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. That could be certified by the Governor of each State who is on the scene and would know the situation locally and could determine the requirements of the situation.

Senator MCCLURE. Yes. I think the Governor is not going to make that certification as long as there are citizens in his State who want to work and are available for work. He would make certification only if there were a need that could not be met by the laborers available in the local labor force.

Senator THURMOND. Senator, you made a very fine and practical statement, one which I think will appeal to the American people and with which they are in accord. Thank you for your appearance. Senator MCCLURE. That you very much. I appreciate it.

Senator THURMOND. Our next witness is the Secretary of Labor, Ray Marshall.

Mr. Secretary, we are glad to have you with us. You may proceed with your statement.

I am only acting chairman here because there was no one else to preside this morning. I am on the Judiciary Committee and trying to accommodate Senator Eastland. I can stay until about 11:15; then we will have to take a recess until 11:30. Another Senator will come at 11:30.

You may proceed with your statement.

STATEMENT OF HON. F. RAY MARSHALL, SECRETARY OF LABOR, ACCOMPANIED BY CHARLES KNAPP, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE SECRETARY OF LABOR

Secretary MARSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to appear here today to express my stong support for the Alien Adjustment and Employment Act of 1977, which would implement the administration's proposals for reform of the laws which apply to undocumented aliens.

Senator THURMOND. I might say this before you go further. We can place your entire statement in the record as written; then you can highlight it. Or, if you wish to deliver it in full, you can do that. Which do you choose to do?

Secretary MARSHALL. I would prefer to highlight it. I will do that, Mr. Chairman.

Senator THURMOND. Then, without objection, your entire statement will appear in the record.

[Material follows:]

STATEMENT OF RAY MARSHALL, SECRETARY OF LABOR

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee: I am pleased to have the opportunity to appear here today to express my strong support for the Alien Adjustment and Employment Act of 1977, which would implement the Administration's proposals for reform of the laws which apply to undocumented aliens. Accompanying me today is Charles Knapp, my Special Assistant.

Mr. Chairman, perhaps the most revealing test of any society is the manner in which it deals with those who lack the political or economic power to achieve their just aspirations. This Nation can be properly proud of the immense progress it has made to achieve equality of opportunity.

Much, of course, remains to be done. In the past year, the Administration and the Congress have devoted considerable energies to the needs of those do not share equitably in our national life. Legislation has been enacted to curb our unacceptably high level of unemployment, and there are indications that this effort is achieving positive results. Programs have been created to deal with the special problems faced by younger workers in obtaining meaningful jobs. A major overhaul of the welfare system has been proposed to better serve the needs of those who are among our most disadvantage. Minimum wage levels have been raised to provide a better standard of living for our most disadvantaged workers. Reform of our labor laws has been proposed to guarantee more effectively the right of each worker to choose freely whether he or she wishes to be represented by a union.

The Administration's proposals to reform our immigration program must be seen as a part of this continuing effort to bring those who are disadvantaged into the economic mainstream. The presence in this country of large and growing numbers of undocumented workers has led to widespread exploitation of these workers. It has also complicated our efforts to assure that all our citizens are afforded job opportunities which will provide them with an acceptable living standard. In dealing with these difficult problems, we must select a course of action which is realistic, effective and humane.

Before discussing these proposals, I would like to briefly explore with you some of the historical, economic, and social realities which lie at the heart of this issue. The large influx of undocumented workers into the United States is a relatively recent phenomenon, occurring primarily within the last decade. Although there is no certain accounting of the number of people involved, we do know that the Immigration and Naturalization Service apprehends and repatriates approximately 1.2 million undocumented aliens per year. This figure is illustrative of the magnitude of the problem we are dealing with. We are certain there are millions of people living and working illegally in the United States today. There is no indication of a reversal in this trend, and it would be a serious mistake to believe that we are dealing with a temporary problem. The implications of this ongoing process are very significant from both short-range and long-range perspectives.

There is a vigorous market for, and in some instances active recruitment of, undocumented workers. They make desirable employees and normally have no difficulty in finding the work they seek.

Apart from his or her willingness to work, one of the reasons the undocumented alien is so desirable to some employers, is the fact that these individuals work both scared and hard. They are understandably afraid to complain when violations of their rights occur. They are reluctant to assert the rights extended by law to all workers. It should not be surprising, therefore, that investigations often reveal that undocumented workers are not paid the minimum wages prescribed by the Fair Labor Standards Act, that many work under unsafe or hazardous conditions, or are the victims of illegal dicrimination. Few have been able to organize or establish any collective bargaining relationships capable of pursuing guaranteed rights. These laws make no expectation for the undocumented worker, but so long as these workers are, for practical purposes, afraid to assert their rights, acceptable enforcement cannot take place. The presence of this large and growing number of workers employed at substandard pay, working conditions, and frequently in violation of this Nation's labor laws has serious implications for the rest of the Nation.

We have all worked long and hard to ensure a guaranteed minimum wage, a safe and healthful work environment, to banish unacceptable forms of discrimination based upon race, religion, sex, age, and national origin from the workplace, and to extend meaningful organizational rights to all employees. However, in order for the laws which establish these guarantees and rights to function effectively, there must be respect for the law by all persons who are subject to its obligations. We simply cannot tolerate a situation in which certain individuals feel free to ignore these fundmental rights because their victims are afraid to complain to the authorities. Of equal importance is the impact of the undocumented worker population on our efforts to reduce unemployment. The unemployment problem in the United States is not ascribable to a stagnant economy. Employment in the United States grew during 1977 by more than three millions jobs and yet the unemployment rate continues at unacceptably high levels showing a decline of only 1.3 percent during that year. Although many factors contribute to the increase in the labor force, the ́influx of undocumented workers into our labor market is, I believe, an important element in this process.

Undocumented workers are employed most often in low-wage jobs. Some employers claim that they can get only undocumented workers to do these jobs. Accordingly, they argue that the influx of undocumented workers has little impact on our