find in my statement that these are not giveaway projects; they are investments in water resources--the five projects underway now in Georgia and in operation have had an accumulated revenue of $87 million.

You are making an investment in the future of this country when you pass on these favorably, as I understand the proposition.

Now, we have the finest partnership arrangement in Georgia that I know anything about. We enjoy the finest relationships with the Georgia Power Co.

Now, you men of the Congress know every now and then you have to step on someone's toes to make him behave. That is true with big business, that is true with power companies, and that is true with almost anybody.

Back in 1957, we entered into contracts for Federal power. The marketing agencies, the Southeastern Power Administration is at Elberton, Ga. By that contract, the power company got the benefit of peaking and dump power. We got the benefit of a lower rate and also all the power requirements that the cooperatives needed in the State of Georgia.

The power company, in addition to that, got $1,044,000 a year to wheel power-which is nothing in the world, gentlemen of the committee, but the power replacement deal. The power generated at the largest installation in Georgia on the periphery of Georgia-Mr. Dorn-at Clark Hill is only wheeled to Augusta, Ga. Yet in the wheeling contract, we had to take into consideration wheeling it as far as the Alabama line down near Chattahoochee, Fla.

We think we have a good deal there. It has been working for 8 years July 22 of this year. If we had any argument about that deal, we would have said so; because in the contract, we had 2 years in which to give notice if we wanted any different arrangement.

In the signing of the contract, here is what they said, and they wrote the contract-of course, we looked over their shoulders:

The parties anticipate that all or part of the capacity and energy from other Federal reservoir projects constructed in or upon the periphery of the company's service area be marketed in the service area of the company under agreement between the Government and the company similar to the one herein set forth.

Gentlemen, if you stayed in session here from now until next Christmas, you could not find a better contract, one with which the company is in thorough accord. There has been no rupture of feelings on the existing contract and we say that it is to the people's advantage that this installation be put in at Federal expense in order that the other benefits might flow. Instead of letting the cash register flow to the Georgia Power Co., let it be Uncle's cash register. Let if help pay for flood control, navigation, and what have you, south of the fall line.

There is one more state

Now, there have been some questions. There ment I would like to make in that connection.

The annual charges are $4,737,000. The power company is asked that the people pay the $2,437,000 for the privilege of doing what this great Government has done in the matter of flood control, navigation, recreation, fish and wildlife, and what have you. That is a fact that ought to be taken into consideration.

Now I want to get, Mr. Chairman, to a few pertinent questions that have been asked. The question was asked about Governor Sanders' approval of the joint partnership.

Governor Sanders was taken to the southern company meeting on the banks of the Chattahoochee to make the annual members' address. He was treated so royally by the Georgia Power Co. and the other three companies that at that meeting he stated that he would like to see more private enterprise, and then came out for the Flint development as a private undertaking.

Governor Sanders has now learned the political facts of life-for instance, last November-and I am quite sure his thinking has been changed considerably. He has an advisory engineering board.

I have been a resident of Georgia for 65 years plus-too long. I served in the general assembly for 22 years, and I am a pretty keen observer in some facets of political life. I know some of the political facts of life-I have been beat, gentlemen.

I have never heard of the names of the advisory members of that engineering board. I have never known of any public hearings that have been held by that board in Georgia.

Before you advise a Governor or a Senator or a Congressman, or just a buck private, you ought to get both sides.

My good friend, Governor Sanders, is now advocating-I guess he will come before your committee, he wants to build a cross-State canal from the Flint River to the Altamaha. It has been more than 100 years that we have been talking about the Flint. Let's develop the Flint before we give him his cross-State canal.

Now, much hue and cry has been stated here about the U.S. Study Commission and its recommendations. The U.S. Study Commission only had a limited sum of money. It was only devised-as a matter of fact, Dick Russell captured the idea from my good friend Bob Cook, of Oklahoma, on the Red River. We undertook that study to put up some signposts as to the need of water resource development in our State. It is not a detail study. It so happens that the Chairman of that Commission feels very kindly toward my good friend the power company, and I have no fuss with that; I like good friends, too, but that is not a detail study, and you cannot follow their recommendations in toto. The power company would not want to do it and we would not want to do it.

Now, I think the present plan is good. You recall when the Flint River was uppermost in your minds a year or two ago, Admiral Vinson, Congressman Vinson, beloved as he is, had pretty good control. He was the dean of the Georgia delegation. He has since retired to his farm in Milledgeville. He did not speak my language on TVA land, Mr. Chairman. Neither did he talk our language on water resource development.

Now I want to reemphasize here that the ratepayers in Georgia are the taxpayers in Georgia also. The only thing the power company is doing is just collecting the money over from one till and putting it in another till. It is all wrapped up in your rate.

I would also like to remind you that things have been going so well in Georgia that there has not been a full-fledged rate review of the Georgia Power Co. rates since 1952, and I think it is about time to spend some hours on that subject.

Now, the money to be spent on these two dams that we are talking about today are investments. They are not contributions; they are

investments.

In my statement, I am giving you the annual take from the five dams already in operation, and the accumulative total, which is $87 million.

Now, should the power company take over the cash register, we have no assurance of any cheaper rates in Georgia. Every time they claim that the rate-there is a differential of nearly 1 mill, ninety-five one-hundredths-0.95-when I get into that, I cannot quite get it. It is a little less than a mill.

Every time you change the rate in the United States in the rural electric field 1 mill, it means $35 million.

We are fighting to keep the rural areas in business. We hope you gentlemen will help us keep them in business. You have many problems and the problems are not getting any less.

Now I want to speak to my good friend from Alabama-you know, we are sister States and I was over talking to a cooperative.

Mr. MARTIN. You weren't marching, were you?

Mr. HARRISON. No; I was not marching. I am not of that complexion.

But since you mentioned the Alabama Coosa project, I am sure that the Congressman is very familiar with the fact that they even tried to bring that up in Georgia and we would not take it. If I recall very vividly the history of that project, when they deauthorized the Alabama Coosa system, hell broke loose in Alabama. The cooperatives have been in a tug of war with one of the sister companies of the Georgia Power.

Thank God that does not prevail in Georgia. They have been in court at each other's throat.

Albama reduced the rates to the cooperatives of Alabama in order to get the deauthorization. As soon as Congress acted on it, the rates came back up again.

Then they had to get into the field of generation and transmission again and fur has been flying ever since.

Let's not deauthorize anything. We are getting along fine with John. He and I do not want to be up here today. We are fussing at each other a little bit.

We get along fine on the Georgia level. We just want the full and complete development in our lifetime of the water resources of our State that it might work for John Lastinger's company and work for the cooperatives of the State of Georgia and the Federal Treasury will be made whole by repayment in toto of the total cost.

Now, gentlemen, I just do not see much wrong with that. Help us on this. Let's get this thing authorized.

You know, it has been before you since 1872. That's a long time. It is time for action. You can make the proper decision, and I thank you very kindly.

Mr. JONES. Thank you, Mr. Harrison.

Mr. Dorn.

Mr. DORN. I just want to thank Mr. Harrison for his fine testimony. We always enjoy having you.

Of course, as one who lives there and actually farms, no professional business connected with it, living on the farm and using the REA, naturally I appreciate REA.

Mr. HARRISON. I appreciate you. Come to Georgia and make another speech sometime.

Mr. MARTIN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to likewise thank the distinguished gentleman for coming before us this morning.

I will admit he shocked me a little bit about the disparaging re marks about the cash register. I happen to believe that the singing of the cash register is one of the most enjoyable noises in the country because when they do not sing, we are in trouble.

I take it from your remarks you are not actually a strong believer in the free enterprise system of this country; is that right?

Mr. HARRISON. I am one of the greatest believers in the privat enterprise system. I think if private enterprise at all times had acted properly, you would not have had a Federal Power Commission or Federal Trade Commission, or the many other commissions w find ourselves afflicted with.

Mr. MARTIN. I am glad the gentleman is for free enterprise.

I simply wanted to make my position clear with you that as member of this committee, I think it is incumbent upon me to loo into these areas where we can save the taxpayer money.

Mr. HARRISON. I concur.

Mr. MARTIN. Because the people of Georgia are paying taxes, the are picking up the tab no matter who builds the power. If we ca save the people of Georgia and the other 49 States substantial money that is what I am trying to do.

Basically I feel in the development of these areas, we should us private enterprise where we possibly can do so, if they can do th job and render the service.

Now, I know that regulations are necessary for private enterprise We have all agreed to that.

But I was a little alarmed by the attack you made on the cas register. Being a businessman myself and owning a few cash regi ters, when they do not ring I am disturbed. And your statemen about it shocked me a little bit.

Mr. HARRISON. I am not against all cash registers.

Mr. MARTIN. I am also glad you were not marching in Selma. Mr. HARRISON. Thank you.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. JONES. Mr. Clausen.

Mr. CLAUSEN. I would like to ask a question of the chairman. Is the question of whether or not the generative facilities are goin to be built a matter to be under discussion in this bill?

Mr. JONES. Well, certainly it will be a matter of concern for th simple reason that it has been suggested and advocated in 1963 an again in the testimony we have received here today, as to wheth we should proceed under the terms of the Senate bill, submission the Corps of Engineers, and all their collective data and informatio from agencies and activities of the Federal Government, or shall separate the power of generation and let the Georgia Power Co. licensee proceed to install the generator facilities.

Mr. CLAUSEN. I see. So there is a possibility under the Sena bill that the generative facilities will be built by the Federal Gover ment?

Mr. JONES. That is, the scheme of development is one that we ha historically carried out, and that has been the general pattern development of those types of projects.

Now, there have been instances where there has been a divisio

Mr. Martin brought up the Tallapoosa. That is a partnership arrangement.

Mr. CLAUSEN. I thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. JONES. So it was a proper question before the committee to consider that aspect.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KUNKEL. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. KUNKEL. One point-relative to the Georgia Power Co., alleged lag in building these plants; there has been quite a little development in Georgia since 1908 and 1913, hasn't there?

Mr. HARRISON. Georgia is a growing State-not as much as California and Florida, but we are growing.

Mr. KUNKEL. So the conditions now are quite different than they were then. The need for power is quite different than it was in that era. I do not see how you could expect the Georgia Power Co. to build a plant like this in 1908, 1909, 1913, or even 1939.

Mr. HARRISON. Well, the Georgia Power Co. now is building steam. The technique of hydro passed out many years ago insofar as they were concerned.

Mr. KUNKEL. Do you not think it wise in general not to build powerplants until the people want power and need that much power? Mr. HARRISON. As a general condition, yes.

Mr. KUNKEL. Thank you.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Will the gentleman yield?

While I am not entirely familiar with the nuclear reactor generative systems, are there some plants down in your area to provide some power under that concept?

Mr. HARRISON. There has been a joint undertaking on the part of 9 or 11 companies-I have forgotten just exactly the number to see what could be done with the AEC plant near Augusta, Ga. I believe they found at the present moment that they could not generate from that reactor the kilowatts as cheaply as they could through thermal operations.

Is that not about right, Mr. Lastinger?

He concurs in that statement.

Mr. CLAUSEN. I see. Currently do you have contractual arrangements, as I understood you to say, with the power company for distribution through your systems?

Mr. HARRISON. We do not generate a single kilowatt of electricity in Georgia. We do not transmit. We have not a single line in Georgia. We rely entirely on the Georgia Power Co. plant and installations.

Seventy percent of our power requirements are bought from the Georgia Power Co. and 30 percent through Federal installations, through the Southeastern Power Administration, which is the marketing agency for the five dams now in operation.

Mr. CLAUSEN. And so you are buying power from

Mr. HARRISON. Georgia Power Co.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Is this the only source of supply now?

Mr. HARRISON. Only source of supply.

Mr. CLAUSEN. And what has your working relationship been up to this point?