Upon calling at the committee today, I was advised that-in view of the fact that the transcript, which I had not had an opportunity to correct, had been set up in type, galley proofs of which I saw at the committee room-it would not be possible to correct my answer to this question. I was told, however, that if I would write a letter, it would be embodied in the printed hearings either immediately following the question and answer referred to or printed at the end of my testimony, with a reference note immediately following the question and answer. In view of the importance of this matter, I respectfully request that this procedure be followed in the printing of the hearings.

Thanking you in advance for your cooperation, and with kindest personal regards.

Sincerely yours,

The CHAIRMAN. Senator McClellan.

HARRY V. HAYDEN, Jr.,
Legislative Representative.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Why do you restrict this priority to buildings containing more than four dwelling units?

Mr. DINGER. The thought there is that in more than four dwelling units you might get into an apartment-type of housing development. Senator MCCLELLAN. No; but supposing the house is surplus and it has only two dwelling units, any priority, as you have worded this, would not apply. Why shouldn't the veterans have as much right to buy a two-dwelling unit as a four-dwelling unit?

Mr. JOHNSTONE. As I listened to the reading of the proposed amendment, I thought that an individual veteran would have a preference on a building containing less than five units, and a veteran's association would have a preference on a building containing five or more units.

Mr. DINGER. That is correct.

Mr. HAYDEN. That is the plan.

Senator MCCLELLAN. You say "veterans' organizations." To just what does that apply? Would it apply to the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars or some corporation or association organized for the purpose of acquiring the property? What do you mean by that?

Mr. DINGER. The latter is what I would mean. It could be done by an American Legion post or a Veterans of Foreign Wars post, any organization of veterans that is chartered for the purpose of purchasing.

Senator MCCLELLAN. I think under the present law, the present priority, we have had some problem with this. For instance, the American Legion post would like the building to make a hut out of. I don't believe under the present law you have that power. Do you? Mr. DINGER. No.

Mr. HAYDEN. Our prime purpose here, Senator, is for cooperative veterans' organizations, so to speak. In other words, we have a bill pending before Congress now which we have termed the Veterans' Homestead Act of 1948, which would provide for the organizing of cooperative veterans' organizations to improve property and to purchase property. Those organizations would be composed of veterans who would be interested and who would occupy these units. Senator MCCLELLAN. That is all.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Hayden.

Mr. HAYDEN. Thank you again, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. The last witness this morning is Mr. C. H. Overman of Tallahassee, Fla. Mr. Overman is chairman of the National

Committee for State Educational Agencies for Surplus Property. He is also director and secretary of the Florida State Improvement Commission.

Mr. Overman, we will be glad to hear from you in regard to this bill.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES H. OVERMAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL COMMITTEE OF STATE EDUCATIONAL AGENCIES FOR SURPLUS PROPERTY AND DIRECTOR-SECRETARY, FLORIDA STATE IMPROVEMENT COMMISSION, TALLAHASSEE, FLA.

Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I have with me Mr. E. K. Dole, of California, chairman of our legislative committee, and Mr. E. H. Talbert, of South Carolina, who will sit up here with me.

We had hoped to have the opportunity to appear before this committee at a later date, but we understood you were having your hearings now and we did get here today.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Overman, there are signs that the Congress contemplates adjourning earlier than usual this year, and so we are trying to get our essential legislation in condition to be acted upon as early as possible. Otherwise, some of it is likely to get left behind when the Congress starts for home.

Mr. OVERMAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say this. It will take the committee some time to digest the testimony which has been presented to it and which remains to be presented to it, and if you have some supplementary statement to present to us within the next 10 days or even 2 weeks' time we will be glad to receive it.

Mr. OVERMAN. We would appreciate that very much.

The CHAIRMAN. We cannot tell just when the committee will be prepared to report to the Senate but until that time comes we will be glad to receive any supplementary statement from you and to incorporate it in the record of the hearings.

Mr. OVERMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, because I wanted to apologize for the superficial things that are in my statement. They may not go down to the meat of it.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not believe you need apologize, Mr. Overman. Mr. OVERMAN. I am appearing before your committee on behalf of the National Committee of State Educational Agencies for Surplus Property, representing 48 States, to offer amendments proposed by them to Senate bill (committee print) March 18, 1948, Federal Property Act of 1948. In our opinion, these amendments are necessary for the retention of the benefits to education and health which are provided in the Surplus Property Act of 1944, and for the incorporation of additional educational and health benefits in the Federal Property Act of 1948, which experience has demonstrated are of great importance.

To assure educational institutions in each State receiving a fair share of surplus properties by purchase at public benefit allowance and by donation, a State Educational Agency for Surplus Properties has been established in each of the 48 States. In most States the chief school officer of the State is acting head of this agency. In some few States other agencies have been designated by law or by executive order to so function.

The managers or directors of the State Educational Agencies for Surplus Properties have organized geographically according to the Army areas and each such area has selected two of its members to form a national committee. Myself of Florida and Harvey T. Marshall of Tennessee are respectively chairman and secretary of the national committee. Edwin K. Dole, of California, Edward Talbert of South Carolina, and J. Easton Parratt of Utah are members of the legislative committee with Mr. Dole as chairman. Mr. Parratt is not here because he is in the hospital.

The national committee has concerned itself with carrying on conferences and negotiations with the different Federal agencies responsible for distribution of surplus properties either by donation or at public benefit discount.

From the above, it is very apparent, therefore, that this organization of these agencies of the 48 States is very much interested in the proposed Federal Property Act of 1948 as this act would, in effect, repeal all provisions of the Surplus Property Act of 1944 (Public Law 457, 78th Cong.) providing for public benefit allowances to educational and health institutions. Public benefit discount allowances under the Surplus Property Act for educational and health institutions, both public and private, have enabled the institutions to acquire large quantities of surplus properties at a considerable saving, such sales being very much more to the public interest than sacrifice sales to dealers.

Under the provisions of the Surplus Property Act of 1944, State educational agencies have been able, with the cooperation of the Office of Education and the Public Health Service, to provide urgently needed property to the State and local school and health programs. The transfer of surplus personal property has been accomplished prinicpally through the donation programs of the Army, Air Force, and the Navy. Since October 1, 1947, personalty with an acquisition value of approximately $300,000,000 has been made available to eligible educational claimants in the 48 States and the District of CoTumbia through these programs. The War Assets Administration priorities claimants officials inform us that our State educational agencies are an important factor in the disposal program as purchasers of surplus personal property at discounts ranging from 40 to 95 percent for education and health use. The acquisition value of the personal property being acquired—that is, currently-from the War Assets Administration totals approximately $10,000,000 each month. Also, the proposed Federal Property Act of 1948 repeals all publicbenefit allowance on transfers of real estate after December 31, 1949. It is felt that this limitation should not be in the law and that publicbenefit allowances should continue to be allowed to the educational and health institutions.

Apparently the above could be accomplished and these allowances continued by amendment to section 302 (a) providing that sections 13 (a) and 13 (b) of the Surplus Property Act of 1944 would not be repealed.

As of February 29, 1948, a total of 2,782 applications made for real property by educational claimants from 45 States had been approved with public-benefit allowance by War Assets Administration, as provided under section 13 (a), Surplus Property Act of 1944. These applications included 64,821 acres of land and 13,069 buildings which

had been acquired by the Government at a cost of $293,227,411 and which were transferred to educational instrumentalities and institutions at a cost of $2,959,645. Approximately 80 applications for health facilities had been approved for property at an acquisition cost to the Government of $85,000,000 and approximately 24,000 beds were made available for hospitalization of patients.

Real properties have been transferred at public-benefit allowances ranging from 40 to 100 percent depending on need, utilization, and so forth. The transfer of these properties has made available facilities for the training of veterans and for relieving overcrowded conditions in schools and hospitals which could not have otherwise been possible. Many of these facilities are being used in the States by elementary, secondary, and vocational schools and by colleges and universities. Others are being used by city and county hospitals and for various badly needed health purposes.

It is difficult to estimate the amount of such property which will in the future become available. WAA estimates as of February 29, 1948, that the total disposals of real property will amount to 4.6 billion dollars. There are indications that the increasing amount of residual industrial property which is not being purchased by industry will become available for educational and health claimants and increase the number of applications for this type of property. Educational and health needs can easily absorb all of the available facilities that are suitable for these purposes. Recent estimates of school and college plant needs for the near future in the field of American education, based on actual surveys, indicate an amount of more than $12,000,000,000. Health surveys indicate an immediate need for hospitals, water systems, sewage disposals, and so forth, in the States, counties, and cities of the United States approximating $10,000,000,000.

The Office of Real Property Disposal, WAA, has required that an investigation and justification of need and utilization be made by the Office of Education on applications for real property for educational use and by the Public Health Service for health use, before such applications are approved by the Administration. We believe that this plan should be incorporated in the Federal Property Act of 1948 to insure that transfers for health and education may continue to be made on the recommendation of personnel in these Federal services who are capable of determining their needs.

All sales agreements, leases, and deeds for the transfer of real property for educational and health use have included a revocation clause, in case of a violation of agreement by the grantee for the use of said property, which can be invoked within periods of from 5 to 25 years. In other words, the property has been transferred under agreement that the applicant will conduct the program in conformity with the plan set forth in the application. As conditions change, the educational and health needs will change but these agreements will require the continuation of the original program or a surrender of the property to the Government, unless changes in the agreements are made. In cases so far where the reversionary clause has been invoked, appropriate recommendations have been secured by WAA from the Office of Education or the Public Health Service. It is our belief that this compliance program can be administered more appropriately and effectively by persons who are dealing with health and educational programs. For that reason we are requesting that the Federal Prop

erty Act of 1948 provide that approval by the Commissioner of Education or the Surgeon General of the Public Health Service for education and health cases, respectively, be required before an invocation of a reversionary clause or change of agreement can be made.

For the above reasons, we propose amendments to sections 104 and 302 of the Federal Property Act of 1948 now pending before your committee. The provision in section 302 (a) for the retention of sections 13 (a) and 13 (b) of the Surplus Property Act of 1944 will assure public benefit allowances on surplus property made available to educational and health claimants. The addition of subsection (j) to section 104 would place the responsibility with the Commissioner of Education and the Surgeon General of the Public Health Service to assure continued use of such properties in the public interest for educational and/or health purposes.

Mr. Chairman, I am sorry that you got to me this morning. I haven't got the amendments now.

The CHAIRMAN. We will receive them as soon as they are prepared and delivered to the committee. Thank you, Mr. Overman. Mr. OVERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

(The proposed amendments were subsequently submitted as follows:)

AMENDMENTS PROPOSED FOR FEDERAL PROPERTY ACT OF 1948 (COMMITTEE PRINT MARCH 18, 1948) BY NATIONAL COMMITTEE OF STATE EDUCATIONAL AGENCIES FOR SURPLUS PROPERTY (TO ACCOMPANY BRIEF DATED APRIL 1, 1948)

4

In accordance with the suggestions in said brief the following amendments to said act are recommended:

(a) Page 12, line 9, in section 104 (a) after the words "subsection (i)" insert the following: "and subject to the provisions of subsection (j)".

(b) At the end of section 104, page 15, between lines 10 and 11 insert the following:

"(j) In disposal of real property heretofore made under the provisions of section 13 of the Surplus Property Act of 1944, certain parcels of real property were transferred and/or leased at public benefit allowances for educational and/or health purposes with reversionary clauses providing, that in case of a violation of agreement by the grantee for the use of said property, the title would revert to the United States of America. Future agreements of lease or sale or deeds which may be issued under the provisions of this Act may contain similar reversionary provisions. In the event such reversionary provisions in deed or agreement covering real property are invoked and the title reverts to the United States, the Federal Works Administrator shall be responsible for the disposal of such properties as provided in this Act for other surplus properties: Provided, that it shall be the duty of the Commissioner of Education and the Surgeon General of the Federal Security Agency respectively for Education and Health: (1) to keep a record of all properties heretofore or hereafter transferred or leased for educational and/or health purposes; (2) to review all reports to be made by the lessees and/or grantees as they are required to make under the provisions of the agreements or deeds; (3) to authorize changes in the provisions of said agreements or deeds so as to better assure the effective use of said properties in the public interest for educational and/or health purposes; (4) to make recommendations to the Federal Works Administrator as the basis for his invoking the reversionary provisions in agreements or deeds where the lessee and/or grantee is not complying with and will not in a reasonable time after notice, comply with the terms of said agreements or deeds; and (5) to make annual reports to the Federal Works Administrator covering all such properties."

(c) In section 302 (a), page 29, line 3, after the word "sections" add the following: "13 (a), 13 (b)”.

4 In this connection, see letter dated April 14, 1948, from Alan Johnstone, general counsel, Federal Works Agency, re suggested amendment for disposal of property for educational purposes, p. 127.

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