THURSDAY, NOVEMBER, 30, 1916.

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR.

STATEMENT OF MR. E. J. AYERS, CHIEF CLERK.

OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY.

MEDICAL AND SANITARY OFFICER.

Mr. BYRNS. Mr. Ayers, the only change in the estimate for the office of the Secretary is that you are asking for a medical and sanitary officer, at $2,500?

Mr. AYERS. Yes.

Mr. BYRNS. Will you please tell the committee why you need such an officer?

Mr. AYERS. For some time we have suffered for the lack of some one who might look after sanitary conditions of our buildings, as well as give emergency relief to employees who might be injured. As you know, we have a large central heating, lighting, and power plant, together with 5,000 employees in the District of Columbia, and under the liability act we have to report those who are injured to the Department of Labor, and it became necessary, in our judg ment, to have some one to look after these minor accidents and accidents which might happen to our employees. His duties are both sanitary and as a physician to look after and care for the injured employees. I mean by care temporary relief. He does not practice at their homes.

Mr. BYRNS. Is that the sole duty resting upon him?

Mr. AYERS. The work of the sanitation is one of the largest duties he will have to perform.

Mr. BYRNS. When you get into your new building you will not be so much in need of an officer of this kind, will you?

Mr. AYERS. We will still retain, of course, the old buildings, and his duties will be enlarged. The sanitation, of course, will be largely of the old buildings, but the relief to employees will continue just the same.

Mr. STAFFORD. How much time do you estimate will be occupied in attention to disabled employees?

Mr. AYERS. I would estimate 20 or 25 per cent of his time.

Mr. STAFFORD. Have any of the other departments a similar officer? Mr. AYERS. Yes; the Government Printing Office, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and other departments have details for this purpose who may have medical officers connected with their depart

ments.

Mr. STAFFORD. Of course, the Government Printing Office and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing have a much larger corps of clerks than the Interior Department.

Mr. AYERS. You mean laborers.

Mr. STAFFORD. Laborers; yes.

Mr. AYERS. They do not have so many clerks, but it is more of a manufacturing plant.

Mr. BYRNS. And the work is more hazardous?

Mr. AYERS. I would think that might be true.

Mr. STAFFORD. Of course, even in large industrial plants-I mean plants of fair proportions-they do not have any medical officer stationed right at the plant. Of course, some of the very large ones, like the Milwaukee Harvester Co., do. They have a little hospital attached to the plant, but fairly good-sized manufacturing plants, employing about 100 men, do not have any medical officer. In case of an accident they call in a doctor.

Mr. AYERS. We find it very useful to have such a man at our command, because some of these minor accidents may develop into very serious ones. For instance, before this man was on duty, one of our men scratched his little finger, and in working in cement it became infected, and he has lost the use of his hand. The result is he is carried under the liability act. Now all such minor accidents must be reported to this medical officer before the employees are allowed to leave the building, and slight treatment then keeps them from developing into anything more serious.

Mr. STAFFORD. You say you have some official performing this work now?

Mr. AYERS. Yes; we have such a man detailed assisting us in this work.

Mr. STAFFORD. What salary is he receiving?

Mr. AYERS. $2,000.

Mr. STAFFORD. What is his position?

Mr. AYERS. He is a medical officer in the Pension Office.

Mr. BYRNS. Mr. Ayers, if the departments are going to adopt such a policy, do you not think that one general officer for the departments would be sufficient?

Mr. AYERS. You mean for all the departments?

Mr. BYRNS. Rather than provide a separate and distinct officer for each department of the Government?

Mr. AYERS. I would not think one man could possibly do it, because of the emergency calls.

Mr. BYRNS. Because it is a fact that if an officer of this kind is provided for one department, the other departments will make similar requests.

Mr. AYERS. In a big department like ours it does keep a man busy; the Star, War, and Navy Departments might be combined under one officer.

Mr. BYRNS. Do you know whether or not the Public Health Service has been giving attention to the sanitary conditions of the various public buildings here in Washington?

Mr. AYERS. They make an inspection probably once or twice a year. They make a general inspection.

Mr. STAFFORD. You do not mean to dissent from the suggestion made by the chairman that in view of the compensation act and the like it would be far better to have one medical officer or a corps of medical officers at the call of all the departments rather than having one man for each department to be called upon at spare moments for the use of the departments?

Mr. AYERS. I think the idea of having a central office for the work with a corps of assistants would be the ideal arrangement; but in the absence of that we are trying to take care of it ourselves. It is

the old case of self-preservation. I mean by that we have a necessity for the service, and in the absence of having anything better we try to do it ourselves.

Mr. STAFFORD. What provision of law is there that permits you to have this medical officer of the Pension Office perform this work? Mr. AYERS. Only one of humanity. I do not know that there is any special provision of law, but it is a condition that exists which we try to meet.

Mr. STAFFORD. How long has he been so acting?

Mr. AYERS. Possibly nine months.

Mr. STAFFORD. What did the department do in such cases prior to that time?

Mr. AYERS. We would get a physician or send for hospital services at one of the city hospitals, or send out and get a physician, or if we had any physician or anyone who was qualified to assist with any remedies we would utilize them.

Mr. STAFFORD. Has the department force the use of the Emergency Hospital staff?

Mr. AYERS. Yes; we have called on them where we have had a sudden death. We have sometimes had to call those people in as well as the coroner.

Mr. STAFFORD. They do not decline to perform such service?
Mr. AYERS. No.

Mr. STAFFORD. Why would not that service meet the exigent needs as they arise in the departmental service?

Mr. AYERS. Well, they are a mile and a half away from us and are attending to their city calls.

Mr. STAFFORD. There are cities that have emergency hospitals a mile and a half away from their factories.

Mr. AYERS. I mean that quite a number of our cases are emergency cases. For instance, the other day we had an employee who fell over in an epileptic fit, and something had to be done. We did not know what the trouble was, but we had our medical officer right there, and he gave immediate attention to it.

Mr. STAFFORD. Of course, Mr. Ayers, these cases are not arising every minute of the day or every hour of the day or every day; they are exceptional cases, I suppose.

Mr. AYERS. Yes; a case of that kind would be exceptional.

Mr. STAFFORD. And a man who had his finger cut, such as you have indicated, of course, could have his case attended to at the Emergency Hospital without requiring the attention of a medical officer in the department who would be simply waiting for some accident to occur. Mr. AYERS. This man's duties lie along the lines of heat, light, and ventilation, all of which is exceedingly important to the employees in the service in order to maintain a high standard and keep up the service. We do it with a view to keeping everybody on the job just as long as we can under the best conditions.

DETAILED EMPLOYEES.

Mr. BYRNS. Mr. Ayers, are there any details either to or from the office of the Secretary to other bureaus of the department?

Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir; that has been reported in a separate communication to you gentlemen.

Mr. BYRNS. I mean the aggregate number of details.

Mr. AYERS. Forty-two.

Mr. BYRNS. Forty-two from the office of the Secretary?

Mr. AYERS. No; that takes in the whole department.

Mr. BYRNS. How many are there from the office of the Secretary? Mr. AYERS. Sixteen.

Mr. BYRNS. Does the statement you have there show to what places they are detailed?

Mr. AYERS. Yes.

Mr. BYRNS. Does the statement show the grade of the different clerks?

Mr. AYERS. I have that information here.

Mr. BYRNS. I was going to suggest you might supply that for the record.

Mr. AYERS. Yes; that has been supplied to the committee, but if you like I will insert it in the record.

Mr. BYRNS. You say there are 16 details from the office of the Sectary; to what bureaus are they detailed?

Mr. AYERS. To the solicitor of the department, 12; to the Indian Office, 1; to the Alaskan Engineering Commission, 1; to the Bureau of Education, 1: to the Geological Survey, 1.

Mr. BYRNS. What grade of clerks are they?

Mr. AYERS. I will have to furnish that information to you later. Mr. BYRNS. Are there any details to the office of the Secretary? Mr. AYERS. Yes; from the solicitor's office to the Secretary's office, 2, and from the Pension Office to the Secretary's office, 8.

Mr. BRYNS. That makes 10 details to the office of the Secretary and 16 from the office of the Secretary?

Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNS. You stated a while ago there were 14 details in all in the various bureaus.

Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNS. Have you those at hand so you can name them?

Mr. AYERS. Yes, sir. From the General Land Office to the solicitor's office, 1; from the Indian Office to the General Land Office, 1; from the Indian Office to the solicitor's office, 1; from the Pension Office to the solicitor's office, 6; from the Geological Survey to the White House, 1; from the Pension Office to the Senate Committee on Pensions, 1; from the Pension Office to the House Committee on Pensions, 2; from the Reclamation Service to the solicitor's office, 1.

Mr. BYRNS. Will you supply for the record the salaries paid to those various clerks who are detailed as you have stated? Mr. AYERS. Yes.

Statement showing employees detailed to and from their respective offices.

Mr. STAFFORD. Why is it that there is a detail from the force of the Secretary of 12 to the solicitor's office, and then from various bureaus almost a like number to the solicitor's office?

Mr. AYERS. They are people who are specially qualified in matters pertaining to the solicitor's office. There may be a clerk and stenographer who is a graduate at law whom it is more desirable to have in the solicitor's office than would be an ordinary clerk, and from his office to some other office there would possibly be some one detailed who would fit in better and be able to take his place.

Mr. STAFFORD. Why is not the practice followed as in other departments of having them transferred to those bureaus on the permanent roll?

Mr. AYERS. That is being done. They are being adjusted as rapidly as we can adjust them.

Mr. STAFFORD. We have not had in the hearings so far attention called to another like instance of persons being detailed from one office and then no recommendation being provided for carrying that out permanently in the tentative bill.

Mr. AYERS. There has been no change submitted in our bill this year from previous years. I might say I had that up with the department with a view to doing it, but under the law by which we had to report it to the committees each year, it was thought perhaps the adjustments might be made by the committee. A detail for a