OVERSIGHT HEARINGS WITH RESPECT TO DEVELOPMENT IN AREAS WITHIN THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1972

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL PARKS AND RECREATION

OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building; the Honorable Roy A. Taylor (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. TAYLOR. The Subcommittee on National Parks and Recreation will convene.

The purpose of the meeting today is to discuss the concern that the members of the committee have with respect to the development programs at various units of the National Park System. In fact, I guess I should have said concern with the lack of development of units of the National Park System, especially the units that have been created by action of this committee and the Congress since 1960.

As everyone knows, both the executive and the legislative branches of the Government have conducted a vigorous program in the field of national parks and recreation.

Spokesmen for the Department of the Interior, with the blessing of the Office of Management and Budget, have urged the authorization of many new areas. In the last decade, more new national parks and other outdoor areas have been authorized by the Congress than have been considered in any other comparable period of time.

I, for one, have been very enthusiastic about this phase of the work of the committee. I am proud of our accomplishments, but I feel that more can, and should, be done to convert these authorizations into real, viable, functional outdoor resources for the use and enjoyment of the people of this Nation.

Millions of dollars have been invested in lands for parks all around the country. We can all be pleased with the progress which has been made in park acquisitions. At the same time, we have been told-and the people of the country have been told-that these areas would be developed, but the dollars needed for this purpose have not been requested or appropriated.

As a group, Members of Congress, I think, have been very patient with failure to respond to our urgings that a greater effort should be made to develop these areas. We have listened with great interest as proposals have been explained which tell of the elaborate plans for the development of public facilities. We can understand the public service provided by the visitor centers, roads, campground and other

facilities which are to be installed or that we were told would be installed. But when it comes down to the wire, either the Park Service, or the Department, or the Office of Management and Budget is not seeking the funds to make these elements of the proposal a reality.

I think we are deceiving ourselves-and more importantly, we are deceiving the public-when we suggest that development will follow authorization. The facts just do not bear that out.

Now, I have before me a copy of a letter of January 21, 1972, addressed to George Shultz, Director of the Office of Management and Budget, inviting him to appear before our subcommittee as a witness. In the absence of objection, I would like to place a copy of this in the record at this point.

(The document referred to follows:)

COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Washington, D.C., January 21, 1972.

GEORGE P. SHULTZ,

Director, Office of Management and Budget,
Executive Office Building,
Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. DIRECTOR: As you know, in recent years there has been a considerable public interest in the expansion of the Nation's outdoor recreation program. In response to this interest, the Land and Water Conservation Fund was estab lished to assure adequate Federal funding for the acquisition of nationally significant outdoor areas.

During the last decade or more, the Congress has made a conscientious effort to meet the National objectives by providing for the creation of many new areas. Practically all of these proposals have been endorsed by spokesmen for the Administration involved with the concurrence of the Office of Management and Budget and most of them have enjoyed bi-partisan Congressional support.

As a result of this widespread support, a good deal of progress has been made and millions of dollars have been invested in the necessary acquisitions of lands. Unfortunately, however, we are falling far short of the mark with respect to the development of these outdoor areas and a tremendous backlog is now confronting us.

I know that you share our concern with this situation. For this reason, I hope that you will be able to represent the Office of Management and Budget when the Subcommittee on National Parks and Recreation conducts its hearings on February 3 and 4 on the present status and future prospects for funding the development programs which arise as a result of the creation of these National outdoor areas. We think the time to begin to liquidate some of these development commitments is long past due and we would welcome your suggestions for the formulation of a program which would make a meaningful contribution to the elimination of this increasingly burdensome and embarrassing backlog. Hoping that your schedule will permit you to testify, I am,

Sincerely yours,

WAYNE N. ASPINALL, Chairman.

Mr. TAYLOR. We had no letter of response. Yesterday, the staff member, Mr. McElvain, called the Bureau and we were told that a letter had been written yesterday-we haven't yet received it-stating that the Bureau would defer to the Secretary of the Interior with regard to the testimony.

We are mighty glad that the Secretary of the Interior is here, but we are disappointed that the head of the Bureau, or certainly one of his associates, couldn't come here and discuss this problem with us. We feel that the Office of Management and Budget helped create the problem because it approved the various authorization bills that we have passed. We think that it should have come here and given us some idea as to what we can expect as we consider these future problems. And I for one think that the Office of Management and Budget,

like other bureaus and other agencies of the Government, should come out in the open and not try to shoot from ambush.

Now, I appreciate the fact that, of course, Mr. Shultz is a very busy person. This is the only time during the year that we have requested him or one of his associates to come before this subcommittee and I say again that I am very disappointed that we have been turned down.

Of course, we are delighted to welcome our friend and former colleague, Rogers Morton, before this committee. He knows the problems that we face just as much as we do. He was a member of the committee when many of the areas were authorized. And I know he will help us find the right answers.

I just want to emphasize the importance of this matter to the members. These raw resources these undeveloped lands, have value and can provide various types of recreation opportunities, but they are providing very little in relation to what could be accomplished if the development plans were carried out.

I would like to yield to the gentleman from Colorado.

Mr. ASPINALL. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry that I won't be able to be here this morning. I have read the questions that were prepared by the staff and I shall read the transcript just as soon as I can.

I am glad that the Secretary is here and I know of his sincere desire to be cooperative and helpful on a problem that has certainly become very distressing to most of us. I am sorry that the right arm of the President has considered that his position is such that he doesn't have to pay any attention to a congressional request. Of course, we are placed in a position where we have to abide by this lack of desire on his part to be helpful to us.

I wish to say that it seems to me that not only in this program but in others but in this program for which there is such a cry at the present time throughout the Nation-we seem to be afflicted with authorizing paranoia-especially in the executive department. I am talking now about that part of the executive department that works so closely with us. We just can't keep from authorizing a great many projects and getting the publicity individually and collectively that we want. Then it seems to me at the same time that the group that has the authority, and I suppose here again the Congress has to assume some of the responsibility, a chronic case of construction and development constipation seems to be more and more pronounced.

We are fooling the people on one hand by telling them that we are going to do something for them to make life better, then on the other hand we draw back that hand and we refuse to give the funds that are

necessary.

This is not only true in this program but it is true in a great many Government programs. Maybe the Treasury can't stand all these things, but it is about time that we were becoming honest with the people, letting them know what these costs are so that the people themselves will know that they are going to have to pay for it.

Now, Mr. Secretary, as questions are asked this morning, knowing of your interest and your understanding and your cooperative attitude, just be perfectly frank with us. Tell us what you are up against. That is the important thing. We know that as far as your operation is concerned, you are one of us, but you have something else that you have to contend with and it just doesn't get through.

I am not casting any blame anyplace as I have made my statement. If the money isn't there, let's tell the people it isn't there and let's call it off. Let's do what we have apparently done in the water resources program. Let's make formulas so high and difficult of attainment that we have just an absolute block for 5 or 10 years to catch up with what we have already done. If time doesn't show that the priorities that have been established in all these programs, have been the right priorities, then perhaps we had better go ahead and change our priorities and undo some of those authorizations that we have outstanding. Someway or other let's get honest with the people.

That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. TAYLOR. The chairman from Pennsylvania.

Mr. SAYLOR. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am delighted to have this meeting. I am glad to see the Secretary here.

Concerning the Office of Management and Budget, this is the first time I have known that we sent a letter to them. I know that communication is one of the reasons for the failure of many things, including wars. Maybe one of the reasons the Office of Management and Budget isn't here is that some of us didn't know they were supposed to be here.

Maybe on your side of the aisle you don't have much connection with the Executive and maybe some of us on our side don't have much, although we do have some. If there had been an attempt by our staff to let us know what was going on, we might have talked to Mr. Shultz and seen to it that somebody was here.

I am not excusing him for not being here but certainly, if we are going to work together on this program as we have tried in the past, on a nonpolitical basis, then we had better try to continue it on that same basis.

I won't take any further time.

Mr. ASPINALL. If my colleague would yield

Mr. SAYLOR. I vield.

Mr. ASPINALL, I would welcome him writing Mr. Shultz a letter at this time.

Mr. SAYLOR. I will be delighted to write Mr. Shultz a letter, and also be in touch with Mr. Shultz personally.

Mr. TAYLOR. I for one would appreciate it if you would call him maybe today and see if he could be here in the morning or have one of his associates here in the morning. This was set up as a two-day hearing.

(The following letter was received from Mr. Shultz:)

Hon. WAYNE N. ASPINALL,

EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT,

OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET,
Washington, D.C., February 3, 1972.

Chairman, Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, House of Representatives, Washington, D.O.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: This responds to your request for testimony before your subcommittee regarding funding for the National outdoor areas.

In this regard I respectfully defer to the Department of the Interior with the understanding that the Department can provide your subcommittee with the views of this Administration.

Please convey my thanks to your subcommittee.

Sincerely,

GEORGE P. SHULTZ, Director.

Mr. SAYLOR. I will do that. I will do my best to see to it that somebody is here.

Mr. TAYLOR. And I have no more criticism of the Office of Management and Budget today than I had 4 years ago when we had a Democratic president. It is the same story.

Mr. SAYLOR. It is the same bureau. A different head, that is all.

Mr. STEPHENS. Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman would yield, I would like to say something about getting Mr. Shultz to come. Í tried 4 months to get a letter from him. So I hope you will have better success in getting him here than I did in getting a letter.

Mr. TAYLOR. The gentleman from Kansas.

Mr. SKUBITZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Secretary, I remember when you and I were members of this committee. I can remember how you protested at times, concerning authorization of projects when we had other projects waiting for needed funds.

I, too, think that we are authorizing too many projects and the net result is that perhaps we invite speculation after we authorize bills. We bring about pressures within the Appropriations Committee by Members of Congress trying to get money shifted from one project to another.

I shall be very much interested in hearing what you have to say about this whole matter.

Mr. TAYLOR. If no one else has any comments, we are glad to welcome our first, and as far as we know now, our only witness, our fine Secretary of the Interior, Hon. Rogers Morton.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Mr. Chairman

Mr. TAYLOR. We all became very fond of Rogers when he was a member of our committee. We recognize him as one of the most effective, one of the most able, and one of the most dedicated members we had. I for one thought that the appointment of him as Secretary of the Interior was one of the finest appointments that the President made.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROGERS C. B. MORTON, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ACCOMPANIED BY GEORGE B. HARTZOG, JR., DIRECTOR, NATIONAL PARK SERVICE

Secretary MORTON. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Saylor, members of the committee, it gives me great pleasure to appear before you this morning, and it also is a great privilege for me to appear before this committee. On March 1, we will commemorate the establishment of Yellowstone National Park as the first national park for the people of the Nation and the world. As we embark upon the second century of our stewardship of these great treasures, it is altogether fitting and proper that we review with you the state of the parks.

History will look favorably on our mutual efforts during this era of great emphasis on acquisition. We have accelerated our efforts to place in public trust many of our great natural treasures.

In the last 3 years alone this committee has accomplished a significant legislative feat with 14 new park areas authorized, enlarged, or redesignated. In 23 parks, land acquisition has been virtually completed since 1969. Some $176 million has been obligated for the acqui