Mr. NORRELL. How much was expended in fiscal 1959 and how much so far in fiscal 1960?

Mr. ROBERTS. We will give you that information, Mr. Chairman. Mr. NORRELL. You do not have it at this time?

Mr. ROBERTS. Not at our fingertips.

(The information requested follows:)

From the 1959 appropriation there remained a balance of $349.38.

So far in fiscal 1960 from the $204,600 appropriated there remains a balance at March 31, 1960, of $61,111.56.

NEED FOR ADDITIONAL POSITION

Mr. NORRELL. Would you please elaborate on the basis of the request for an additional position.

Mr. ROBERTS. This increase was requested by the legislative counsel for the employment of an additional assistant counsel, and Mr. Perley, the legislative counsel, asked for this, and I know he would be glad to come before the committee and justify it. But, all positions and rates of salary are set by the legislative counsel, or with the approval of the Speaker, except the legislative counsel's salary, whose salary is set by

law.

Mr. NORRELL. Is there any further statement you care to make at this point?

Mr. ROBERTS. I will ask Mr. Perley to give me a statement and we will submit that for the record.

Mr. NORRELL. All right.

(The statement referred to follows:)

STATEMENT OF ALLAN H. PERLEY, LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, WITH RESPECT TO APPROPRIATION REQUESTED FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 1961

For the fiscal year 1961 we have requested the sum of $210,000 for the operation of this office, an amount sufficient to cover the present payroll plus estimated miscellaneous expenses of $2,000, the amount of $6,500 to permit the appointment of another young attorney, and a reserve of $5,540 for salary increases.

The personnel of the office now consists of 11 attorneys and 6 clerical em ployees, the same number as last year.

In my statement of last year I told in detail about the increase in the work of our office in recent years. I made a request for $6,515 to make it possible to appoint an additional attorney-and this amount was appropriated. However, I pointed out when I made the request that because of the crowded condition of our office I would not be able to make the appointment unless we were successful in the effort we had been making to get more space. The space was not made available and the attorney was not appointed, but our application for additional space is still on file with the House Office Building Commission. The amount of $6,500 which I have requested for the fiscal year 1961, for an additional attorney, is thus a renewal of last year's request. If we should be fortunate enough to be assigned more space in the coming year, I feel it is important to be able to make the appointment I was unable to make last year.

As noted above, I have requested $5,540 to permit salary increases during the coming fiscal year. As you know, increases can be made by me only with the Speaker's approval. The increases I have in mind are of the kind customarily made in this office for members of the legal and clerical staffs as they develop and become more valuable to the office. In my opinion this is especially important at this time because, during the past 2 years, several of the younger and lower salaried attorneys have developed very rapidly in their ability to handle efficiently a wide range of difficult work, much of it for committees. I earnestly hope that the subcommittee will grant this request.

At this point in the current Congress the number of job requests received by this office from individual Members which have been completed, or are presently pending, is approximately the same as the number of completed and pending jobs at this same point in the 85th Congress.

However, the number of job requests received from the committees of the House thus far in the 86th Congress is substantially in excess of the number of such requests received from the committees at this point in the 85th Congress. After final adjournment of the 86th Congress we shall compile and submit to the subcommittee complete figures on individual and committee job requests in the same form as those submitted for past Congresses.

Mr. NORRELL. You may proceed, Mr. Clerk.

CLERK HIRE, MEMBERS AND RESIDENT COMMISSIONER

Mr. ROBERTS. I refer you to page 26 of the subcommittee print. For clerk hire, necessarily employed by each Member and the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico, in the discharge of their official and representative duties, $16,300,000, the same as that appropriated in 1960.

Our estimate is based largely upon experience, although we have no way of knowing exactly how much may be used. The precise amount requested depends upon the salaries designated by the Members to their staffs within the limitation of the law.

As of February 29, 1960, the Members were employing 2,630 clerks at a gross monthly salary of $1,290,756.83, while under the law 3,589 clerks could be employed. Of this latter number, 85 Members with a constituency of over 500,000 could employ 9 clerks each whereas all other Members are limited to 8 clerks.

We shall now take up the various items in the contingent fund of the House which commences on page 27 of the subcommittee print.

Mr. NORRELL. How does the situation look? Will the Members use all their authorization for clerk hire; and how does the number of clerks and annual salary rates compare with a year ago?

Mr. ROBERTS. We will make that comparison for you, Mr. Chair

man.

Mr. NORRELL. Will you please give us a breakdown on what has been done up to date?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir, and we will compare them with last year. NOTE. As of March 31, 1959, Members were employing 2,579 clerks on the clerk hire roll at a gross monthly salary of $1,287,433.

CONTINGENT EXPENSES

FURNITURE

Mr. ROBERTS. The first item covers the furniture and repair department. For furniture, materials, and repair of same, including labor, tools, material, and supplies for the repair shops; purchase of new furniture and equipment; trunks, or so-called packing boxes; rugs or carpets; cleaning and repairing of same, we have submitted an estimate of $245,000 for the fiscal year 1961, compared with $231,800 appropriated for 1960, or an increase of $13,200.

Our budget for 1961 is based on $146,500 for gross salaries of employees of the furniture and repair shop; $25,000 for supplies and materials; $26,500 for the purchase of furniture and equipment; $7,000 for cleaning, repair work, and remaking of old rugs; $20,000 for the purchase of new carpet; $8,000 for the purchase of trunks, or

so-called packing boxes, for the 1st session of the 87th Congress; $10,000 for the purchase of new drapery material, drapery supplies, and sewing; $2,000 for handling of insect extermination work.

NEED FOR INCREASE

Mr. NORRELL. On the item of "Furniture," your statement does not say anything as to why you want or need an increase of $13,200. Why is that needed?

Mr. ROBERTS. That is where you provide for the additional repairman and mechanic that we ask for under the Clerk's Office.

Mr. NORRELL. Why do you need more than you have in the present year?

Mr. ROBERTS. We estimate that position will be about $7,000.

Mr. NORRELL. Can you tell us what you have used up to date on that item?

Mr. ROBERTS. This is a new position that we anticipate you might

allow.

Mr. NORRELL. But, how much have you used up to date?

Mr. ROBERTS. As of March 31, 1960, we had a balace of $101,941.65. Mr. NORRELL. How much did you spend in 1959 for the same item? Mr. ROBERTS. Well, we will have to make a comparison.

Mr. NORRELL. Will you put that in the record?

Mr. ROBERTS. I certainly will.

(The information requested follows:)

From the $244,463 appropriated for fiscal year 1959, $45,586 remained unexpended.

From $231,800 appropriated for fiscal year 1960, there remains a balance at March 31, 1960, of $101,941.

Mr. NORRELL. Are you meeting all of the demands of the Members within the current appropriation?

Mr. ROBERTS. I think so and they are growing with the expansion of activities of the Members.

Mr. NORRELL. You are meeting the demands?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORRELL. Do you have any plans for adjusting salaries in this item? If so, for what reason?

Mr. ROBERTS. I have it under consideration, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. NORRELL. Will you tell us something about that either on or off the record?

Mr. ROBERTS. Here is a copy of the payroll that is paid to all the employees in the Furniture Division or in the shops as we call them, which include the cabinetmakers, the upholsterers, the finishers, helpers and so forth and this is a schedule of all the salaries paid. Of course, any general salary increase which applies to other employees of the Government also applies to these people, but we do have under consideration making a few adjustments.

Mr. NORRELL. Is the House Administration Committee involved here? Do you have to get authorization from them before you can make a salary increase?

Mr. ROBERTS. I do not.

Mr. NORRELL. You do not? I did not think so.

Mr. HORAN. Why the increase of $13,200?

Mr. ROBERTS. That is the positions we were discussing about the repair and technical man for electric typewriters awhile ago under the Clerk's Office. Last year the appropriation was cut $6,000, and the two items together, would make up the difference of $11,000, approximately.

Mr. Bow. I do not see where you get a difference of $11,000 when you have $7,600 and approximately $5,000. It looks like $13,000 to me. Mr. HARPER. It is $13,000 instead of $11,000.

Mr. HORAN. $13,200.

Mr. HARPER. We are asking for the same amount we asked for last year, plus $7,000, but the committee cut us $6,000 on what we asked for last year. So, we came back and asked for the same amount again. Mr. HORAN. We cut you more than that.

Mr. HARPER. In this particular item?

Mr. HORAN. You mean in that repair item?

Mr. HARPER. Yes, sir.

Mr. HORAN. We cut you more than $6,000. It was about $13,000, I believe.

Mr. NORRELL. Are there any further questions, gentlemen?

Mr. Bow. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am not satisfied with this. Your estimate in 1960 was $245,130 and we allowed $231,800. Where do you get the cut of $6,000? You had a cut last year of $13,330.

Mr. ROBERTS. I thought it was $6,000.

Mr. Bow. And, you said we cut you $6,000. I am confused now on these figures.

Mr. ROBERTS. Could we not work that out later?

Mr. Bow. Yes; let us come back after lunch.

Mr. NORRELL. Any further questions, gentlemen? If not, I want to ask one more question:

I know that we have several other officials that necessarily, of course, have employees and I am wondering if you officials decide among yourselves as to what requests should be made, or if each man goes his own way. You have some employees. The Sergeant at Arms has some and so forth?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORRELL. Does each man just go his own way, or do you try to see to it that the level of salaries are pretty well the same? What do you say about that?

Mr. ROBERTS. Well, I think we work together on that.

Mr. NORRELL. Pretty well?

Mr. ROBERTS. Yes, sir, I do not think there is very much difference. Mr. NORRELL. Well, I think you should and I am glad to know that. Gentlemen, we shall now recess until 2 o'clock.

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. NORRELL. The committee will come to order.

At the time we recessed for the lunch hour we were discussing the $13,000 increase under furniture.

Mr. HORAN. Yes. Mr. Bow and I had some additional questions which we would like to ask on that item.

Mr. HARPER. The answer is that the two positions are properly stated under the Clerk's Office, and what he is asking for under furniture is the same he asked for last year without relation to the two positions. Mr. HORAN. I do not see where the repair technician has anything to do with this present $13,000.

Mr. MEGILL. It does not, but he is listing them that way. That is what he would like to do, and if the amount is sufficient, he will appoint a repair technician.

Mr. HORAN. What is the justification for it? At one place you are asking for $13,000 for the recording studio and repair technician and at another place you are asking for $13,000, plus, for repair of typewriters. It is confusing.

Mr. MEGILL. Item No. 1 reflects an increase in the amount for the recording studio from $105,000 to $111,000. That takes care of one job, and the other one was for the repair technician. When you add those two together, you get this $13,000 figure.

Mr. HORAN. Mr. Chairman, it is still a little bit unclear to me with reference to the cost of the repairing of these typewriters and maintenance of the typewriters. In 1958 the figure was $15,274.25 and in 1959 it had risen to almost double that amount, $27,410.78.

How much of this are you going to eliminate, assuming that you are allowed the $7,000 you are requesting?

Mr. ROBERTS. Of course, Mr. Horan, I explained to the chairman earlier today that most of the offices are converting or going over to electric typewriters from manual typewriters and that explains why. In other words, I do not have the dates when these typewriters were purchased, but most of them have been purchased within the last year or two and we are buying new typewriters all the time, because some Members are still using manual typewriters entirely. I have two or three vouchers on my desk now from the IBM Co. for bills from December to January of nearly $3,200 in 1 month.

As I explained earlier, we have been able to cut that down to about $1,600 or $1,700, but it is a tremendous problem.

Mr. HORAN. I am talking about the repair and maintenance of these typewriters.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is what I am talking about. The repair bill for the IBM Co. was nearly $3,200 in January.

Mr. HORAN. Do I understand that the electrical typewriters are more susceptible to breakdown than the manual typewriters?

Mr. ROBERTS. I would think so.

Mr. HORAN. I would think it would be the other way.

Mr. MEGILL. It is a highly specialized item.

Mr. HORAN. No further questions.

Mr. NORRELL. Now let us go back to the Clerk's statement, and you may proceed, Mr. Roberts.

MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS

Mr. ROBERTS. It was necessary for the Clerk's Office to set up 28 various allocations for miscellaneous items covering the appropriation of $2,450,000,

We submit for the record a statement listing these 28 allocations showing the amount of each allocation, the amount expended to