Mr. Bow. That is not what the gentleman read from the report a few minutes ago.

Mr. ROBERTS. Every one of them is charged to a Member.

Mr. Bow. May I see that report, please.

Mr. ROBERTS. Every piece of electrical and mechanical equipment is charged to some Member and if the General Accounting Office goes to that office and it is not in the physical inventory of that office it might be included in that item.

Mr. Bow. Let me read a statement from this report:

The practice of removing electrical and mechanical equipment from the House Office Building is in violation of rules and regulations prescribed by the House Office Building Commission. In prior audit reports we have pointed out that there were departures from this regulation of the Commission and suggested that the Clerk of the House take necessary action to recover the equipment.

What action have you taken to recover the equipment?

Mr. ROBERTS. I have notified everybody to bring back the equipment if there was any taken out in disregard of the rules and regulations.

Mr. Bow. You have notified them yourself?

Mr. ROBERTS. Not me, no.

Mr. Bow. Who has?

Mr. ROBERTS. My agents.

Mr. Bow. Who are they? Who has done it?

Mr. ROBERTS. Miss Gordon.

Mr. Bow. How many notices did she send out?

Mr. ROBERTS. She goes to every office and tells them.

Mr. Bow. I did not ask that. You have just said that in compliance with this suggestion of the General Accounting Office you notified people to return this equipment. How many notices to return equipment did you send out?

Mr. ROBERTS. When my agents send out notices, that is me.

Mr. Bow. Mr. Chairman, I would like the witness to answer these questions without somebody at his side putting words in his mouth. I think we are entitled to this information. You are an employee of

the House, are you not?

Mr. ROBERTS. An officer of the House.

Mr. Bow. An officer of the House employed by the House? Mr. ROBERTS. No, sir. I am an officer of the House. Mr. Bow. You think you are an officer to run the House? Mr. ROBERTS. No, but I am charged with this responsibility. Mr. Bow. You are charged with this responsibility, and I am charged with the responsibility of seeing that you are carrying out the duties of the Clerk of the House. What have you done yourself, individually, Ralph Roberts, Clerk of the House?

Mr. ROBERTS. When I give an order to one of my subordinates, one of my deputies, that is me; and I told them to get all that equipment back.

Mr. Bow. Then did you ever check to see that it came back?
Mr. ROBERTS. I did.

Mr. Bow. What did you do?

Mr. ROBERTS. I asked them about it.

Mr. Bow. You got this report in December 1958, did you not?
Mr. ROBERTS. That is right.

Mr. Bow. Then when did you tell the lady to get this equipment back?

Mr. ROBERTS. Immediately.

Mr. Bow. Did you do that in writing? Was anything relating to this report done in writing between you and your employees or was it all verbal?

Mr. ROBERTS. Most of it was verbal.

Mr. Bow. Was any of it in writing?

Mr. ROBERTS. I do not recall any.

Mr. Bow. Do you think it would be a better practice, in a case of this kind where there is a notation of this character in the General Accounting Office's report, to send a written memorandum so that it would be understood by all concerned that you had an interest in this matter?

Mr. ROBERTS. The House Office Building rules specifically say no property shall be taken out of the building, and we provide every office with that every few weeks.

Mr. Bow. Again you have not answered my question. You do not seem to want to answer these questions. You say all these things

happened years ago. How long ago?

Mr. ROBERTS. In 1907 the manual typewriter account was started. There never was a General Accounting Office audit until I asked for it. Mr. Bow. When were you first Clerk of the House?

Mr. ROBERTS. 1949.

Mr. Bow. Did you do anything then to try to correct this situation? Mr. ROBERTS. No. I thought everything was in order.

Mr. Bow. Since 1949 you have been Clerk of the House

Mr. ROBERTS. For 2 years I was not, and I have been Clerk the

last 4 years.

Mr. Bow. Since 1949, with the exception of 2 years, you have been Clerk of the House and it was not until 1957 that this audit was made. Is that right?

Mr. ROBERTS. 1955.

Mr. Bow. 1955?

Mr. ROBERTS. Then I asked for an audit of the property custodian's

office.

HOUSE RECORDING STUDIO

Mr. Bow. Let us leave this for a moment and go to the House recording studio. Why do you want that language item for the recording studio deleted?

Mr. ROBERTS. I do not know why it should be any different from the stationery room or any other subdivision of the Clerk's Office. I suggest it would permit more flexibility.

Mr. Bow. Did you submit that suggestion to the committee in charge of the recording studio?

Mr. ROBERTS. No.

Mr. Bow. Why did you not?

Mr. ROBERTS. I did not think it was necessary.

Mr. Bow, In other words, you do not think that the committee that has been appointed by the House to supervise the operations of the recording studio should be consulted in such matters? Is that correct? Mr. ROBERTS. No, sir.

Mr. Bow. Why do you think we should not be consulted?

Mr. ROBERTS. I did not say that. I said they should be consulted. Mr. Bow. Then why were they not consulted?

Mr. ROBERTS. When they have a meeting I will be willing to explain it to them.

Mr. Bow. I would like you to explain to me right now why you did not consult them.

Mr. ROBERTS. When this budget was made up, it was October. How would I get in touch with you at that time?

Mr. Bow. Then why did you try to change the budget without consulting them?

Mr. ROBERTS. It has been done many times.

Mr. Bow. Not when it was under a committee appointed by the House to supervise the operations.

Mr. ROBERTS. It does not make any difference to me. It can stay in there. It was just a suggestion on my part. I do not see any difference between the administration of the studio and the stationery room and the property custodian's office.

Mr. Bow. I would suggest you read the legislation that was passed setting it up.

ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT NO. 1. (RETIREMENT)

Let us go to the administrative assistant No. 1 (retirement). Why should not that position be under the Sergeant at Arms? Mr. ROBERTS. It was just set up under the Clerk. There was no authorization for the position under the Sergeant at Arms and this committee appropriated the money for the position. The authorization was under the Reorganization Act. It provides for an administrative assistant to the Clerk.

Mr. Bow. That administrative assistant No. 1 (retirement) spends his full time in the Sergeant at Arms' Office?

Mr. ROBERTS. That is right.

Mr. Bow. And when he is not working on retirements for Members he does some work for the Sergeant at Arms, does he not?

Mr. ROBERTS. Possibly.

Mr. Bow. Does he do any work at all in the Clerk's office?
Mr. ROBERTS. No, sir.

DIALING LONG DISTANCE CALLS

Mr. Bow. Have you any regulation against the new dial system of dialing long distance calls, against their books coming into the House? Mr. ROBERTS. We have no way to control that. We have enough trouble with this intermediate dialing system where we pay the telephone company on vouchers that they submit every month for calls in the immediate vicinity of Washington that they cannot identify. If you open up this other thing you would have thousands of dollars every month you could not tie down to a specific Member's office.

Mr. Bow. Then I take it it is correct that you have denied the books coming in?

Mr. ROBERTS. It has not been done up to this time.

Mr. Bow. Do you know why the books have not been distributed to the House Members?

Mr. ROBERTS. The lady in the telephone exchange said it would be impossible for her to keep track of it. It do not like to sign a Toucher when you cannot pin it down.

Mr. Bow. Is she the one who suggested the books should not be distributed to the Members' offices?

Mr. ROBERTS. I think so.

Mr. Bow. And you concurred?

Mr. ROBERTS. I have up to this time. It has been only a month or two. I think that is a matter for the House Administration Committee to pass on.

Mr. Bow. Have you submitted it to the House Administration Committee?

Mr. ROBERTS. No. I want to find out more about it.

Mr. Bow. You have a feeling, do you, Mr. Roberts, that perhaps people would make calls that would not be listed, that the Members would make calls that would not be listed?

Mr. ROBERTS. I do not know who would make them but at the present time every month we have $40 or $50 of intermediate calls in the vicinity of Washington we cannot tie down, and I am getting tired paying them. This would be a variation of the same thing except it would involve thousands of dollars instead of a hundred or so. Mr. Bow. That is all at this time, Mr. Chairman.

(Committee note.-The following statement was submitted by the Clerk of the House bearing generally on the foregoing subject and is included at this point.)

During last year's hearings the telephone office was mentioned, since we were then in the process of changing over from a manual board to a dial system. We have one of the most modern switchboards in the world. From my observation and knowledge, it provides excellent service. It is located in the New Senate Office Building, and is manned by 44 House operators and 25 Senate operators. There are 28 positions on the board and 6 positions of information. The board is open 24 hours a day. No overtime is currently paid since the operators work on schedules which are arranged so as to avoid any overtime by any single operator; however, as the workload increases, it is highly probable that overtime will again be necessary.

Last summer in 1 day between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. over 75,000 calls were handled on the board. At that time there were 3,293 lines working. At the present time

there are 3,444 lines working and the load of calls is even greater. There are eight positions on the board to handle manual calls which come from Members who still prefer to use the manual set.

Mr. NORRELL. All right. Any further questions, gentlemen? (Committee note.-The following statement was submitted by the Clerk for the information of the committee and is inserted at this point.)

The office of the file clerk has always been an important adjunct to the Clerk's office since it is the repository for all files of the House of Representatives, induding the various committees of the House.

In accordance with the Lobbying Act, all lobbyists are required to register and file with the Clerk quarterly reports. Registration reports are filed by lobbyists before beginning operations. They are acknowledged on the date received. The registration is numbered and filed in numerical order. A typed list is kept of all registrations by date and number. A card index entry is made from this list. These cards give the name and address of the lobbyist and his employer, together with date of registration and assigned number. A separate card index is kept of the employer. The total number of registered lobbyists is now over 5,000.

In addition to registration, lobbyists must report quarterly, and we now have en file more than 40,000 such reports. All reports are retained and are available fer public inspection in the office of the file clerk for a period of 2 years.

1 The Federal Corrupt Practices Act requires that all political committees report receipts and expenditures every quarter. These reports are received and filed with the Clerk and are also available for inspection for 2 years. There are now on file more than 7,245 such reports.

Candidates for the House are required to file reports of contributions and expenditures before and after each election. These reports are filed with the Clerk and deposited in the file room for public inspection.

I have singled out these few offices under the Clerk for special comment because they have been previously mentioned in appropriation hearings, or because I felt that you would have a special interest in them insofar as they involve money and property.

I have not made special mention of other offices, but I do not wish to give the impression of minimizing their importance nor do I wish to detract from the fact that they are an integral part of and are necessary functions of the House.

I feel that the functions of the disbursing clerk, bill clerk, journal clerk, enrolling clerk, tally clerks, reading clerks, library, clerk's document room, and Daily Digest are well understood by you and require no special comment at this time.

The wide scope of activities under the Clerk is primarily one of service to the Members of the House of Representatives. Every item in the Clerk's budget was carefully and thoroughly considered before submission to the Bureau of the Budget. It is my firm belief that any reduction of or restriction in the use of funds requested, will serve only to lessen the services or result in having inadequate means to carry out the functions and responsibilities imposed upon the Clerk of the House.

COMMITTEE EMPLOYEES

Mr. NORRELL. If not, we will turn to the next item on page 14, committee employees.

I notice the request is somewhat more for 1960 than it was this

year.

Mr. ROBERTS. That is to take care of the new Space Committee. For committee employees, other than special and select, which are under a separate heading, we are requesting $2,900,000 for 1960 as compared with $2,611,190 appropriated for 1959, an increase of $288,810.

The Committee on Appropriations payroll as of February 28, 1959, totaled 47 employees and $418,355 gross per annum.

For the other 19 standing committees, which is based on the assumption of 208 positions, the maximum now provided by law, 10 for each committee or 190, with the exception of the Committee on the Judiciary which has 13 positions; the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce which has 12 positions; the Committee on Foreign Affairs which has 12 positions; the Committee on Armed Services which has 12 positions; and the Committee on Ways and Means which has 19 positions. This also includes the new Committee on Science and Astronautics as authorized by House Resolution No. 580 approved July 21, 1958, 85th Congress, which provides for 10 additional positions.

The law authorized basic salaries ranging from $5,000 to $8,880, for each professional position and not to exceed $8,880, basic for each clerical position, but, with the several increases now in effect, it is possible under the law for each position-professional or clerical— to pay the full gross amount of $16,418, per annum. Although quite a number of positions pay this maximum rate of salary, it is not expected that all positions will do so, because experience shows they do not. As of February 28, 1959, there were 179 employees carried on the rolls of the 19 standing committees referred to at a gross salary of $2,083,735, per annum, as against the maximum authorized of 208. positions.