Please allow me to expand on Wahpeton. As I said, it is the most cost-efficient school in the system. A BIA analysis of costs shows that Wahpeton has been the cheapest school to operate for the last two years. Per student costs at Wahpeton are $5,051 in 1982. Costs at other schools ranged up to $7,625 for Mt. Edgecumbe, Alaska, and to $6,052 for Intermountain, Utah. The Wahpeton Indian School was $300 a student cheaper than the next least expensive school in Phoenix, Arizona.

The Wahpeton School is educationally top-notch. The head of the Aberdeen District of the BIA's education programs says the Wahpeton School is one of the best quality education schools in the entire BIA system. Even the BIA's Title I office here in Washington says Wahpeton's staff and teachers have perhaps the finest reputation of all the Indian schools.

A study of achievement levels in the Aberdeen District showed that of 39 schools, Wahpeton has the third best record. The Wahpeton School had the third highest percentage of students scoring above the national average in 1980. And from 1976 to 1980, the Wahpeton School achieved one of the region's best records in reducing the percentage of students scoring below the national

average.

The entire community in the Wahpeton area, in the southeast corner of North Dakota, is behind the school. Most of the region's tribes have issued formal recommendations of support. Some of these tribes include the Standing Rock Sioux, the Turtle Mountain Chippewas, the Red Lake Band of Chippewas in Minnesota, the Omaha Nebraska Tribe, the Stockbridge-Munsee Community of Mohicans in Wisconsin, the Winnebago Tribe of Nebraska and the Great Sioux Nation.

Now, we hear that the BIA wants to close the Wahpeton School because it claims facilities are among the worst. There is no justification for this claim. During my visit to the school I found the school and dorm facilities, built from 1964 to 1972, to be in excellent condition.

The Wahpeton School has been criticized for its location. However, other Indian schools like Flandreau, South Dakota, are not on reservations. Wahpeton is the only boarding school in North Dakota and Minnesota, two states with large Indian populations.

The school is providing a valuable service to students who are having serious difficulties in their home environments and there would simply be no other place for them to go.

In fact, there is a waiting list of about 25 to 30 students that the Wahpeton School would accept if a hiring freeze were lifted on adding additional staff. In short, the Wahpeton School is an impressive success. To close it down defies all logic.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate the opportunity to present my views to this distinguished panel today.

Senator ANDREWS. We have Gov. Allen Olson from the State here. Governor, we would be glad to hear your statement. Let me explain one of the problems I have. There is a vote going on over in the Senate, and if you could hold off for about 5 minutes for a 5-minute recess? Governor OLSON. It would be wonderful. I want to make my presentation to you, Senator.

Senator ANDREWS. Great. Well, why don't we hold off for a 5-minute recess. I will go do my thing.

The committee is in recess for 5 minutes.

[Short recess.]

Senator ANDREWS. The committee is reconvened.

The committee is fortunate to have before it the Governor of the State of North Dakota, a competent gentlemen and a very long-time friend of mine, Gov. Allen Olson. From his experience as attorney general for the State, I am sure he brings a good deal of insight of the legal ramifications of these closures.

In his concern for the people of North Dakota, I think he is going to have a good deal to add.

Governor Olson, it is a privilege to have you here. Welcome to the committee, and we will be glad to hear your testimony.

STATEMENT OF HON. ALLEN OLSON, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA

Governor OLSON. Senator, I think you know what a pleasure it is for me to appear before you, as a U.S. Senator, one of the most distinguished citizens, and it is my pleasure, especially this morning, to be here to support the school at Wahpeton.

I am not going to recite or reiterate the statistics, the facts that no doubt are available to the committee. I am going to speak a little more philosophically and from a firsthand personal experience that I had about a month or so ago in a personal visit to the school at Wahpeton, N. Dak., and because of my background in politics and as a trial lawyer, I place a great deal of stock in visiting with the people affected by any action, and seeing for myself the ramifications of actions conteniplated in the public arena.

So, I had that opportunity, Senator, and it was very revealing. I had no doubt upon having had that opportunity to speak with the faculty and staff, and the strong supporters in the Wahpeton community for the school there having had an opportunity to tour facilities to see for myself that those facilities are well kept, which is a clear indication of the respect of the staff, and also the students at the Indian school at Wahpeton, N. Dak.

So, I have a brief prepared statement that I would just as soon give to you and respond to any questions you may have.

Senator ANDREWS. Governor, it will appear in full in the record and you can summarize or add to it, whatever you wish.

[The statement follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF GOVERNOR ALLEN OLSON OF NORTH DAKOTA

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased that you are holding this oversight hearing on the proposed closing of the Wahpeton Indian School. I appreciate this opportunity to make my views known.

This school has an enviable record of educating many Native American youngsters who would never otherwise have a proper educational environment. It certainly should not be abruptly closed unless the Bureau of Indian Affairs has made adequate plans for what will happen to those children. From what I know of the situation, there are no such plans.

Mr. Chairman, I believe in the general philosophical target of the Reagan Administration's reduction of Federal spending. But surely more thought and more planning should be done before this facility can be closed without plans for the future of the students.

It is my understanding that spokesmen from the BIA have not identified how they plan to take care of these youngsters. They deserve the opportunity of this hearing to make their plans known. I hope this Committee will be aware of my awareness of the acute needs of these 200-plus young Indians. I want to know how the BIA intends to take care of the problem.

Mr. Chairman, my administration will work with you in determining where we go from here, in the event the shutdown of the school is irreversible. This matter is in good hands, and I will follow the judgment of this Committee.

Thank you.

Governor OLSON. I think this is a proper way. As a chief executive, I understand, and especially under the present circumstances in our State and in this country, the need to cut back on public expenditures

to the extent that we can, and where appropriate, but in the deliberative process that we have devised in this country, it is also appropriate for the legislative bodies to respond and react. I think here, you have the opportunity to see the consequences that would occur if this school were closed, and that is that it does respond to a particular problem. It crosses State lines in receiving Indian children from all across the Midwest, and, in fact, from across the country. I had the personal experience of meeting some of the students from Washington, South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, and North Dakota. They reflect a problem, that in one way or another would be responded to either by the States or the local communities, and that would entail a public cost.

So, in effect, by closing a school, one that has proven itself to be able to respond to this problem in a most efficient way, we would not be doing away with the problem. That general problem would still exist, and it would be responded to, and it would absorb public funds, and I would most strongly say, Senator, that I believe that this school should remain open, not just because it is located in my State, but because it really does do a marvelous job of responding to a real need. I think that is the final test.

Senator ANDREWS. Thank you, Governor, for an excellent statement. Governor, as the chief executive of North Dakota, let me ask you a few questions. You know the Wahpeton area as well as I do. Are these buildings is this physical plant well maintained and up-to-date, or is it in a crumbling situation that you might have inferred from the testimony that they have to spend all kinds of money to update it? Governor OLSON. It could certainly be more up-to-date, an accurate response, but it is well maintained and there is a very direct pride, and not just in the people directly associated with the school itself, Senator, but with the community. There is support and assistance. There are relatively new facilities, but there are also old facilities, but which we know must be maintained.

We have in many of our outstanding colleges and universities buildings that are 50 years old, but they are well maintained, and they are serviceable, and they are part of the institutional programs that are maintained there. So, my reaction to any question about the facilities themselves at the Indian school at Wahpeton would be that they appeared to me to be well maintained and serviceable and clearly able to take care of programs that are carried out there.

Senator ANDREWS. In fact, we ascertained earlier in the hearing before you were able to be here, Governor, that the buildings that are used for the educational and dormitory purposes of the children have all been built since 1960. The older building is the one where the superintendent and some of the BIA employees work, and that is not the first priority of concern for this group. The superintendent and the other officials are adequately taken care of. But it is a modern facility, and it does compare, would you say, favorably with the public school facilities on average across the State of North Dakota?

I

Governor OLSON. Yes, it compares favorably with an average. think you and I perhaps understand that as well as anyone having traveled the State frequently, and being in many of our schools and institutions in the State that, yes, it compares very favorably.

Senator ANDREWS. Governor, one final observation; you, as chief executive of the State, what is your observation of the acceptance of this school and its interrelationship with the community, and the area around there? Is this known as a good institution or is it, as you might say, a problem institution?

Governor OLSON. Based on my experience as the attorney general of North Dakota for 8 years immediately prior to being elected governor, and 1 year as governor of the State of North Dakota and having discussed generally the issues in the Wahpeton area, the surrounding area, I can say that the school is a positive citizen in the Wahpeton community. In fact, I had an opportunity, part of the delegation which helped me—if I may put it that way-visit the school was the chief of police. I was curious about the relationship of the students to the community, and I have no doubt, Senator, that had there been a problem, the chief would have taken that opportunity to tell the Governor, and someone he had known as attorney general in an official, as well as a personal relationship, of any problems. He said, “no.” They are, again, an average citizen in the community. They are not an extraordinary side of that average that one would expect of a school of that nature.

So, it is—and the other leaders in the community indicated the same thing.

Senator ANDREWS. Well, I appreciate your saying that, Governor, as chief executive. Of course, as you know, Wahpeton is only 50 miles from our home, and that is exactly the same impression I have gotten of the school and the way it is handled, and of the children and their deportment over the years, and I appreciate your pointing that out to the committee.

Thanks for your appearance, and it is good to have you here.
Governor OLSON. Thank you for the opportunity.

Senator ANDREWS. Our next witness will be Mr. James Peirce who is president of the National Federation of Federal Employees here in Washington, D.C.

Mr. Peirce.

Welcome to the committee, and we appreciate your coming.

STATEMENT OF JAMES M. PEIRCE, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, WASHINGTON, D.C., ACCOMPANIED BY: CHARLES BERNHARDT, BIA SPECIALIST; AND PATRICIA THOMAS, LEGISLATIVE STAFF

Mr. PEIRCE. Thank you, Senator, we appreciate you having us. For the sake of time, and, as I understand, you have our statement and have had it since yesterday afternoon, I would like to just have it submitted for the record.

Senator ANDREWS. It will appear in the record in full, Mr. Peirce. Mr. PEIRCE. I would like to make just a brief statement quoting one part of our testimony. I will also ad lib a little bit.

I might say on my left, I have Charles Bernhardt, who is our BIA specialist, and on my right is Patricia Thomas. of our legislative staff. In order to understand the losses which would be felt by the closure of the three BIA schools, the committee should be aware of the invalu

able functions they perform. The off-reservation boarding schools, ORBS, were created to address specific needs. They accept students who cannot adjust to public schools, or to the reservation.

Students come from broken homes or poor environments, and often have drug or alcohol problems. The staff at the Indian boarding schools are especially geared to instill in these Indian children the stability and personal strength to return to their home community or to other school systems. There can be little doubt that off-reservation residential schools are more effective than public schools in educating the types of students whom they enroll. Special programs which provide quality education are developed to respond to special needs. Programs are offered to help educationally and emotionally handicapped children, including alcohol and drug abusers. The program serves these purposes by providing dedicated staff who care when no one else cared, and offered their help when no one else offered. The schools have provided a sanctuary in which the special cultural needs of the students can be met.

Now, the reason I address this part of the statement is that I was appalled to hear some of the earlier statements, especially with regard to the social programs area. I find that we evidently have a problem defining social problems today, and this hasn't been the first time I have run into this with this administration.

Obviously, the administration has not defined "social problems." They have no feel for people, or they just do not care, one way or the other.

It has been rather apparent to us that as we look at many of the budget cuts not just here we see the safety net disappearing, especially in the social program areas.

It frightened me about a week ago when I was in the Dallas/Fort Worth, Tex., area to find in a psychiatric hospital, one that specializes in this area, that 80 percent of the patients in that hospital were under 30 years old, and that there was a substantial number of teenagers.

Now, I think that this should indicate that we have problems, social problems, and that some of these, I believe-having been an educator and worked in the educational field for a while-lead to educational problems. I am saying this because I believe that maybe in some cases we have found an answer in some of the BIA schools. Again, we hear various reasons for the school closings. On the one hand, we have heard it is because of costs. Now, I heard this morning that it is the new BIA educational philosophy, which I find hard to believe. I think some of it goes back to the ORBS study conducted in 1980, which really started this fiasco. At that time, we tried, and tried, and tried, even with Congress, to get real facts, cost facts, and so forth relative to this whole move to close out a number of the BIA schools. I am afraid then, it was an utter failure as far as really getting anything that would substantiate the closing of the schools.

Then, I heard the Assistant Secretary state that, we have to writeoff some of these schools. I would like to know why we have to write some of them off if they are doing a good job. If, in fact, the BIA is trying to save money, I think it must be along the lines that we hear advanced by OMB that we write things off simply because we have got to drop a dollar. I think that is being penny-wise and pound foolish. It is the wrong approach, in other words.