Page images
PDF
EPUB

Secretary STIMSON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And I trust the committee will confine all questions to subjects that relate to the matter before us.

Secretary STIMSON. I may say for the information of the committee that I have instituted in the Department, for the sake of covering this very subject, a series of meetings, confidential meetings, at which the Members of the two Houses of Congress will be heartily welcome, and at which there can be shown to them with the utmost fullness everything that is being done by the Department; and that invitations have been extended to the members of the different committees of the House and Senate who we suppose would be most interested in that. It is a policy which I adopted because I knew how valuable it had been 23 years ago at the time when we were preparing our defense then. Yesterday and the day before we had such meetings, and I intend to have them at very short intervals right along, for the convenience of the gentlemen attending. We had a large number of Senators the day before yesterday. We had a very large number of Members of the House yesterday, and they there were able to ask, and to be informed in the fullest detail, on the numerous questions which are involved in this matter.

I extend to this committee personally and individually a most hearty invitation to come to any of those meetings, or at any time, to get this information. But I do not believe it is for the interest of the defense of the United States that we should give publicity to these things which will make it any easier than it is now for our potential enemies to get it.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, the committee thanks you for your kind invitation. The Chair will state this, that any question of that kind, asked by any member of the committee from either side, will be ruled out of order; so please be guided accordingly.

Mr. FISH. Mr. Secretary, I am in entire accord with your views. I do not think we should divulge in any possible way any of our secrets. And I think, Mr. Secretary, you are the only judge of whether you should answer a question or not. But I do believe it is the duty of this committee, because this is partially a national-defense measure, and we are the Foreign Affairs Committee-and there was some dispute in the House about the jurisdiction of this bill-but I believe it is very essential before we report this bill back to the Congress that we have the fullest information from the War Department as to our national defense. And I am going to suggest before this meeting is over that you be called back for an executive session, at which you can give the fullest information. That is the proper procedure instead of having us go to the War Department or having any individuals of the committee go to the War Department. That is the regular order in the House, and I shall demand the regular order. Secretary STIMSON. I certainly will not resist it. I will be very happy to come and I will be very happy to have any of my assistants and officers who know more about the details than I can possibly know come and help this committee. But these meetings, the purpose of which I am sorry to say Mr. Fish apparently misunderstands, were not instituted for the purpose of compelling members of the House to come down to the War Department, but to give them a convenient opportunity, in a more informal way than in a great committee hear

ing, to ask questions and to see papers which we could not always have handy at a committee hearing.

We do not at all propose to insist on members of Congress holding their committee meetings down in my rather uncomfortable Munitions Building, but if you can be benefited by what we can show you there, we will be very glad to have you. A great many of your colleagues are coming, and have been coming.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Secretary, in answer to what Mr. Fish has stated, there will be executive sessions provided those sessions will be executive; and unless each and every member of the committee states that he will keep confidential all of the testimony given before the committee in such executive sessions, the committee will not hold executive sessions; because an executive session should be what it is supposed to be. But if such information is to be given out to the public, then those questions will not be permitted, either in executive session or in any other place.

Mr. CHIPERFIELD. You do not suggest, Mr. Chairman, that any member of the committee would give out any information obtained in executive session?

The CHAIRMAN. It has been done before, and members have stated in committee that they would not hold confidential, testimony given in executive session. Unless such statements are withdrawn, there will be no executive sessions; there will not be executive sessions unless everything mentioned there is to be held strictly confidential.

Mr. FISH. I do not know why the chairman raises this question, unless he is reflecting on the integrity of some member of the committee. I am quite in accord with the gentleman that everybody should voluntarily give a promise not to divulge any testimony, including the chairman. But I think it is not necessary to raise this in public at all, and I am sorry that the chairman has raised it.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would like to answer that, because Mr. Fish said that he was going to demand certain things. Now, he can demand them, but with that demand there is going to be coupled something else, and that is, it is going to be an executive session. Mr. VORYS. Regular order, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order that this is a matter that will be determined by the committee and not by any individual member of the committee; that is, whether there will or will not be executive sessions, and we can settle that at the proper time.

Mr. VORYS. Regular order, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Fish may proceed.

Mr. FISH. Mr. Secretary, you said in your remarks that the British fleet stands alone against the German fleet's control of the Atlantic. Secretary STIMSON. I think I said substantially alone.

Mr. FISH. That is the quotation that I wrote down from your address. Does the Secretary believe that any foreign nation could land troops on our coast?

Secretary STIMSON. Not now; probably not.

Mr. FISH. Any time this year?

Secretary STIMSON. I would not dare say that it could not, at any time this year.

Mr. FISH. Our navy is 6 times greater than Germany's Navy, and it takes a navy 3 times as large to come over here; but assuming

a landing of 50,000 troops here, could not our army now, at any time this year, take care of 50,000 foreign troops?

Secretary STIMSON. I think it probably could, if you mean by that that there was a land invasion. But I would like to ask my friend if he thinks that an invasion by infantry is the only possible invasion of America today.

Mr. FISH. If the Secretary is referring to propaganda

Secretary STIMSON (interposing). No; I am not referring to propaganda. I am referring to air attacks.

Mr. FISH. Does the Secretary believe that any airplanes that have yet been invented can fly over here, bomb our cities, and fly back to foreign bases abroad?

Secretary STIMSON. Probably not the full width of the Atlantic Ocean. But they are rapidly developing in that direction, and there are many places short of the full width of the Atlantic Ocean which could serve as bases for an air attack upon this country by a nation that commanded the Atlantic Ocean.

Mr. FISH. I assume the Secretary is referring to some possible base in some foreign country in Latin America?

Secretary STIMSON. Not necessarily. Newfoundland would be a base within range of all of our New England coast. North Canada would be in range of all of our New England coast-within easy bombing range.

Mr. FISH. That is assuming that we permitted a foreign nation to establish a base there, with our Navy, is that right?

Secretary STIMSON. Well

Mr. FISH. Does the Secretary seriously assume that our Navy would simply rest idly by, locked up in its own harbors?

Secretary STIMSON. I have not the least idea that it would voluntarily, but where is our Navy now?

Mr. FISH. As I say, our Navy today is six times stronger than the German Navy. Where is the French Navy; where is the Italian Navy now? Where are the British and the German ships going every day except to the bottom of the sea?

Secretary STIMSON. The French and the Italian Navies seem to be pretty well occupied with the British Navy at present.

Mr. FISH. Mr. Secretary, the reason I stress that is because, as I understand, reading the headlines in the press, it seemed that the reason for this measure in its present form, was the fear of an invasion from some foreign power; some foreign power invading America. It seems to me that to advocate the bill in its present form because there is fear of this invasion, which is the case according to the statements that are being issued on the subject-it seems to me that I should ask you if you think, if you believe, that we are in danger of any immediate invasion?

Secretary STIMSON. I think we are in very great danger of an invasion by air in the event that the British Navy should be destroyed or surrendered.

Mr. FISH. Mr. Secretary, do you believe that this country would permit any foreign country to establish a base within any striking distance of the United States?

Secretary STIMSON. Not if it could help it.

Mr. FISH. With its navy?

Secretary STIMSON. Not if it could help it.

Mr. FISH. Would you not go to war immediately to stop it?
Secretary STIMSON. I should.

Mr. FISH. So would I. Now, Mr. Secretary, are you in favorSecretary STIMSON. May I ask a question there? Have you ever studied the Panama Canal?

Mr. FISH. I have been to the Panama Canal.

Secretary STIMSON. It was my official duty once to help build it. Mr. FISH. I believe in protecting it, and I would ask you if you are in favor of putting a clause in this bill to ask, as collateral or security for the loans we provide in the bill to Great Britain, that we take over the West Indian Islands, in order to protect the Panama Canal?

Secretary STIMSON. I am not suggesting such an amendment, although it is no doubt within the powers of the Congress. I think that it would create great delay in introducing the measures and the methods which I have tried to point out are very important to have immediately available for the quick establishment of our defense.

Mr. FISH. Of course, that is a matter for the committee, but I do not see why there would be any delay.

Ι

Secretary STIMSON. I should for that reason, if no other, seriously be opposed to any amendment which made that mandatory. I think that is one of the things that should be left to the discretion, as this bill would leave it, of the Executive. It is my experience that the more of those limitations you put in, the more ineffective are the attempts to take action under a bill. In wartime action must be effective and prompt; and if you have got to negotiate-I have had some experience with the time that is required for negotiations in international affairs-if you have to negotiate on such an ambitious program as you have just mentioned, you would not have this bill ready for this spring and summer, and that is the time when you are likely to meet this crisis.

Mr. FISH. There are other members of the committee that want to be heard, but I would like to proceed just a little further. As I take it, therefore, you do not fear any invasion of this country except through the air?

Secretary STIMSON. No; I did not say that. I have been not above learning a great deal about warfare during the past 8 or 9 months. Things have happened in Europe that I did not think possible in the way of speedy conquest and effective aggression, quick aggression. I do not propose to take any chances on my own country's safety at this stage of the world, at this stage of warfare. I think that our first and paramount duty is to put ourselves in a position where we can develop ourselves as quickly as possible, and to put ourselves in a position where we can save the time necessary for our own defense by helping those nations which are keeping the Atlantic Ocean a barrier at present while we do arm.

Mr. FISH. Has the Military Affairs Committee refused the War Department any appropriations that you have asked for national defense?

Secretary STIMSON. My dear Mr. Fish, they have been most generous. But I have found among gentlemen of the House of Congress, unfortunately, a very inaccurate idea that an appropriation can be made on Monday and on Tuesday the weapons for which it was intended will be ready. Now, that is not the case.

Mr. FISH. There has been some lag in production, has there not? Secretary STIMSON. There has been a lag in production, and there always will be a lag in production when you try to transform a great, peaceful, industrial democracy into a war machine. The experts who have spoken about it have usually spoken about it as a 2- or 3-year job. And that is what we have got to do this minute.

Mr. FISH. Well, it is not the fault of Congress, is it?

Secretary STIMSON. No; it is not the fault of anybody except our whole people, ourselves, who have preferred to live as a peaceful democracy rather than as an armed camp. But the fact is that we have lived as a peaceful democracy and we are today in the condition which results from that. The making of appropriations in June last, which were very generous, and in September, which were very generous, was only the very first start on a long program of transformation of American business. That cannot be done overnight. It cannot be done even in 1 year.

Mr. FISH. How many men have we under arms at the present time? Secretary STIMSON. I have to speak from memory, Mr. Fish, but we have something between six and eight hundred thousand. But I am speaking from memory, and that number has been increasing.

Mr. FISH. Just a final question, because it was raised both by the Secretary of State and yourself, and emphasized by both of you. Both of you seem to compare the situation of the small countries of Europe, such as Denmark, Norway, Belgium, and Holland, bordering on Germany, with ourselves, as far as national defense is concerned. These little countries were right on the border line of Germany, with no ocean at all between them, and they seemed to me to be in an entirely different category so far as defense was concerned, from the United States of America. But as I interpret the remarks of the Secretary of State and yourself, you put them in practically the same, the identical category.

Secretary STIMSON. I wish I could so far as the sizes of the armies are concerned. The Army of the United States today is nowhere near as large as the Army of Holland was last May. The Army of the United States today is not as large as the Army of Belgium was in May, nowhere near as large and nowhere near as well trained. Mr. FISH. Whose fault is it?

Secretary STIMSON. Ours, the United States of America. We are planning an expansion of our Army of 8 times what it has been in time of peace, and that will only bring it up to 1,400,000 men. I may be mistaken about the figures, speaking from memory, but the Army of Belgium was almost as large as our proposed Army.

Mr. FISH. As I understand, we are expected to have an Army of 1,400,000 men by the 1st of January.

Secretary STIMSON. No, we were not, never.

Mr. FISH. Those were the statements made by the War Department to the Congress last August. That has not materialized? Secretary STIMSON. Excuse me, but

Mr. FISH. Well, the record will show.

Secretary STIMSON. Pardon me, I will let you finish.

Mr. FISH. When is it expected you will have such an army? Within a few months' time, is it not?

Secretary STIMSON. No, sir.

Mr. FISH. In April?

« PreviousContinue »