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When my friends here talk about whether we are going to commit an act of war-I want them to read this statement made by this great group of lawyers when they tried in 1934 to decide exactly what this treaty meant. And this is the report of the Thirty-eighth Conference of the International Law Association, held at Budapest, in the Hungarian Academy of Science, on September 6-10, 1934.

Mr. EATON. Mr. Secretary, thank you for your very lucid discussion of our relationship to international law. I am in complete favor of every assistance to Great Britain which this bill will make possible. What I am troubled by is the effect of the provisions of the bill as they now exist upon our internal economy, and I would like to ask you what machinery will be set up to equip the one purchaser, which is the President of the United States, to purchase and distribute with a minimum of confusion and mistake, the great supplies that are to be bought. Will he do it all alone or will he have the advice and counsel and help of other human beings.

Secretary STIMSON. It will be exactly the same group that is doing it now for the United States; these gentlemen that I spoke of in my original presentation who have been preparing for 20 years for the work which would be thrown upon them in just such a crisis as we have today.

Mr. EATON. When we delegate this power to the President, we expect that he will delegate the powers to competent persons to discharge those duties?

Secretary STIMSON. Precisely.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I move that we recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the committee will recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, and we will ask the Secretary please to return at that time.

(Whereupon the committee took a recess until Friday, January 17, 1941, at 10 a. m.)

LEND-LEASE BILL

FRIDAY, JANUARY 17, 1941

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Sol Bloom (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will kindly come to order. We will resume with Secretary Stimson.

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY L. STIMSON—Resumed

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Tinkham is recognized.

Mr. TINKHAM. Mr. Secretary, before proceeding to cross-examination, I would like to read a statement on the front page of the Washington Post this morning, and ask you to comment upon it. The article says:

Two clauses in the administration's "lend-lease" bill were written with the express purpose of giving the President power, if England falls, to buy the British Navy, to allow the British warships to operate from American ports, and to place orders for war materials in Canada, the Washington Post learned yesterday.

Further, the clauses were so written that the United States could acquire the remnants of the French Navy, if the Vichy government could ever be persuaded to risk the possible consequences of such a transaction.

The language of the bill was intentionally drafted so that the President, providing the Vichy government cooperates, could remove a threat from the Caribbean by buying the French aircraft carrier Bearn and light cruiser Emile Bertin, now lying in the harbor of Fort de France, Martinique.

And it is suggested that officials provided that information. What have you to say upon that?

Secretary STIMSON. I have only this to say, that I never heard of such a suggestion until I read it in the Post this morning.

Mr. TINKHAM. Do you consider that under the very broad wording of the bill, those things could be done?

Secretary STIMSON. I have not considered it in that light. I consider that suggestion as one of those rather fantastic and preposterous suggestions, such as the one that the President might, under this bill, give away the Navy.

Mr. TINKHAM. Is there anything that is fantastic under present conditions?

Secretary STIMSON. I do not understand the question.

Mr. TINKHAM. I say, is not everything fantastic under present conditions as you see them

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Secretary STIMSON. No

Mr. TINKHAM. And any suggestion possible?

Secretary_STIMSON. No. I certainly think that everything is not fantastic. I tried to point out yesterday some dangers that I think are very real.

Mr. TINKHAM. Those who want to see, of course, anything, can usually see it, if their mind is looking in the direction of fear. Now I would like to know whether you helped to draw this bill?

Secretary STIMSON. No, sir.

Mr. TINKHAM. Was it entirely and completely drawn when it was submitted to you?

Secretary STIMSON. I think I saw it before-well, a few days before the bill was introduced; but that was all. I think I saw a draft; I am not sure it was the same bill.

Mr. TINKHAM. Were there any changes made after you first saw it? Secretary STIMSON. I do not know.

Mr. TINKHAM. Did you have any suggestion of any changes? Secretary STIMSON. I did not consider the bill critically enough, to answer your question.

Mr. TINKHAM. May I ask you what you think of the policy of the United States putting all of its resources, short of manpower, behind any country in the world which is attacked-what you think of that general policy?

Secretary STIMSON. I think that is another one of those questions which is so wide that for me to try to answer it would not help in the discussion of this bill. I think I have expressed my approval of putting the power of the United States, or the resources of the United States enough behind Great Britain to try to preserve the British Navy.

Mr. TINKHAM. What I would like to know is this. With the President's address to Congress, and the wording of this bill, it seems to me the policy implicit in that address and in the very broad wording of this bill is that we are to put our resources behind any country that is attacked; and if that is true, I am asking you whether you think that is a sound American policy

Secretary STIMSON. I never heard him state any proposition as broad as to put the resources of this country behind any country that was attacked.

Mr. TINKHAM. I think that is implicit in the President's address to the Congress, but, if you think not, let me put it this way.

Secretary STIMSON. I think you misunderstand me. I have never heard of his attempting to put the resources of this country behind any country that was attacked, but only behind those countries, as this bill states, whose defense is vital to the defense of the United States. Now, that is not "any" country.

Mr. TINKHAM. That means that any country the President wants to say, or with reference to which the President wants to say, its defense is vital to the defense of the United States.

Secretary STIMSON. I do not think that is a fair statement, Mr. Tinkham.

Mr. TINKHAM. Well, if you think China is included, of course, as a country whose defense is vital to our defense, we have got to put all of our resources behind her except manpower.

Secretary STIMSON. There again you have introduced a word which I have not heard used by the President or by anyone else who was speaking on that subject, when you said all the resources of the United States.

Mr. TINKHAM. Except manpower.

Secretary STIMSON. Not only excepting manpower. Whatever resources have been put behind China, for instance, have been very far from being all the resources of the United States, even its material

resources.

Mr. TINKHAM. But that is only the beginning, I assume, and the bill makes no limitation whatsoever. We are called on to pass a bill which gives authority to the President

Secretary STIMSON. No limitations except the limitation of the President's discretion which is a very broad and serious thing.

Mr. TINKHAM. It certainly is. I would like to say, Mr. Secretary, without being repetitious, I hope, that with what the President said in his address, plus this bill, it would seem to me that unless there were limitations put in the bill, the policy of the United States would be to put its resources short of manpower of any character or kind behind any country that was attacked anywhere in the world. And what I wanted to know from you was whether you thoughtand I might say, let us assume that that is so-would you think that was a sound policy for America?

Secretary STIMSON. I do not think I can answer that question as broadly as you have stated it.

Mr. TINKHAM. I am sorry, I did not hear what you said.

Secretary STIMSON. I do not think that your question as stated is quite a fair question. It does not reflect anything that I have said.

Mr. TINKHAM. Mr. Secretary, I am asking you, not basing my question on what you have said, but asking a hypothetical question; would you be in favor of a policy of that character, putting the resources of the United States, short of manpower, behind any country in the world which the President desired to select?

Secretary STIMSON. I do not think that question is germane to this bill at all, because I do not think this bill does it. If you want to know my opinion, I can give it to you.

Mr. TINKHAM. Yes; I would like it. That is what I want.

Secretary STIMSON. I think that the powers granted in this bill are about as clearly and as sharply defined as they could possibly be, and still leave it possible to take prompt action, the prompt action which is necessary to meet the danger of war.

Mr. TINKHAM. But there is no limitation as to the countries that may be assisted on the mere say-so of the President that it is necessary for our national defense?

Secretary STIMSON. No; you are mistaken on that, Mr. Tinkham. Mr. TINKHAM. Well, I have the bill here.

Secretary STIMSON. In section 3, subdivision 1, the bill gives the definition that it shall be a country whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States. That is a very different proposition from what you stated.

Mr. TINKHAM. Well, am I not correct in saying that he might regard today China as vital to our national defense, and tomorrow

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