been closed as a deal as yet or not. It is still on leased land, but it is a facility we are retaining.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. But most of your private warehouse leases have been turned back to the original owners?

Colonel WELLS. Yes, sir.

Out at Alameda we had three little ends of warehouses out there on leased land.

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Alameda Depot will be disposed of in the very near future and there is a certain section of that that is on leased land with Government-owned building on it.

Colonel WELLS. But none in operation planned to be retained in operation.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. And you are expeditiously releasing that which is not being used?

Colonel WELLS. Yes, sir. We hope to be out of the space of the San Francisco Medical Depot by the end of this year.

Mr. DONOHUE. Colonel Breckinridge, are you expressing policies for the Air Force as well as the Army at this time?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. Up until the Secretary of National Defense took his oath, we were responsible for policy for the Air Forces. And they have followed actually the same policies that we have followed in the Army.

Now, if you have any further questions, there are some people here from the Air Forces who would be glad to answer them.

Mr. ANDERSON. All right. We will excuse you gentlemen and thank you very much.

(Witness excused.)

Mr. DONOHUE. Captain Tillson.

TESTIMONY OF CAPT. E. M. TILLSON, OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS, NAVY DEPARTMENT, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. DONOHUE. Will you give your full name and position to the reporter?

Captain TILLSON. E. M. Tillson, Office of Chief, Naval Operations, Navy Department, Washington, D. C.

Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Chairman, prior to receiving testimony of Captain Tillson, I would like to read into the record a copy of a letter received by Mr. Rizley's office from the Assistant Secretary of the Navy containing a statement of policy relative to consolidating or merging facilities with the War Department.

This letter is from the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Washington, dated the 15th of August 1947, addressed to the Honorable Ross Rizley, chairman, Surplus Property Subcommittee, Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.:

My dear Mr. Rizley: In your letter of August 11, 1947, to the Secretary of the Navy, you requested a statement of the Navy's policy in effecting consolidation or mergers with the War Department of duplicate facilities in the San Francisco

area.

The commander western sea frontier and the commandant Twelfth Naval District, for some time, have been collaborating in studies with the commanding general Sixth Army and the commanding general Fourth Air Force of joint use of

facilities in the San Francisco area under the following joint policy guidance for studies seeking common use of facilities by the Army and Navy:

1. Common use of facilities will be effected where economies of personnel, services, material, or funds may be achieved without unacceptable reductions in operational or mobilization requirements and capabilities.

2. A program of studies will be formulated to explore the geographical and functional areas in which such economies may be effected.

3. This program of studies will be divided into long-range and short-range projects and, insofar as practicable, priorities for study and implementation will be recommended.

4. Priorities will be determined by the degree of economy that can be expected, having due regard to operational commitments and mobilization requirements and other special considerations which are compelling.

5. Plans for programs and projects mutually acceptable to the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations (Logistics), Navy Department, and the Director of Service, Supply and Procurement, War Department, will be submitted to appropriate authorities in the War and Navy Departments for consideration and, upon approval, will be promulgated to the appropriate. War and Navy Department agencies for implementation.

Sincerely,

W. JOHN KENNEY.

Mr. ANDERSON. If there is no objection, that will be made part of the record.

Mr. DONOHUE. That will be numbered exhibit 7. (The document above referred to, marked "Exhibit 7," is filed in connection with this record.)

Mr. ANDERSON. Did you have a statement, Captain Tillson? Captain TILLSON. No, sir; I am here as a representative of the Navy Department.

Mr. DONOHUE. Will you raise your voice, please, Captain?
Captain TILLSON. I have no prepared statement.

Mr. DONOHUE. Now, Captain Tillson, in respect to this letter of policy that was received from the Navy Department, what action has been taken in this area relative to studying the possibilities of effecting joint utilizations of facilities with the Army and Air Forces?

Captain TILLSON. The commander of the western sea frontier was directed to cooperate with the Sixth Army and the Air Force in areas congruent to the Sixth Army Area and those studies have been progressing--this directive I think, went out about the 1st of July. Since that directive, those studies have been progressing.

We have received in the Navy Department a few interim reports from the commander of western sea frontier, but no reports of conclusions and recommendations have been received yet.

Mr. ANDERSON. Captain, do you have a copy of that directive available so we could make it a part of the record?

Captain TILLSON. I do not have it with me.

Mr. ANDERSON. Could you make it available to the committee? Captain DE Vos. I believe they are restricted documents, sir, those letters.

Mr. ANDERSON. Then, we will not make that request of you.

Captain TILLSON. No; this is a directive requesting him to conduct the study.

Mr. ANDERSON. If it is not restricted, we would like to make it a part of the record. (See exhibit 9.)

Mr. DONOHUE. Was any board actually appointed in this area on the part of the Navy?

Captain TILLSON. Not by the Navy Department, sir. The commander of the western sea frontier may have appointed a board. I believe Captain De Vos could answer that question.

Captain De Vos. I am a member of the board from western sea frontier, sirs.

Mr. ANDERSON. Will you come up, Captain?

TESTIMONY OF CAPT. PAUL L. DE VOS, REPRESENTING COMMANDER WESTERN SEA FRONTIER, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF.

Mr. DONOHUE. Will you indentify yourself to the Reporter? Captain De Vos. I am Capt. Paul L. De Vos, representing commander, western sea frontier.

Mr. DONOHUE. What action has been taken in this area, captain, relative to the study of joint utilization?

Captain De Vos. As General Weaver said, we have had several meetings with commander, western sea frontier, and the district commandant's representative. Commander, western sea frontier, acts only as an adviser and coordinates for those three districts. As you probably know, the district commandant is the real holder of real estate in his district, and consequently we felt that in any studies he should be represented.

Mr. DONOHUE. Now, then, you acted for the western sea frontier and the district commandant?

Captain De Vos. Not for the district commandant, only western sea frontier as adviser and coordinator.

Mr. DONOHUE. Whatever conclusions were reached by you at these meetings would be submitted to the commandant and western sea frontier?

Captain De Vos. On the contrary, the commandant would submit his recommendations to the western sea frontier for approval.

Currently, we have several recommendations that are before this board now that have not been thoroughly gone over.

Mr. DONOHUE. That is before what board?

Captain De Vos. Joint Utilization Board and Fourth Air Force and commander of western sea frontier.

Mr. DONOHUE. What action was taken by you at the meetings? Did you on behalf of the Navy submit some list of installations and submit some ideas as to where a joint usage could be effected? Did you offer the joint use of some of your facilities to the Army?

DE

Captain De Vos. Yes. All the facilities that were held by the armed services were presented with statements as to whether or not they had surpluses, whether there were any needs. Then the other service, if it saw fit, could supply those needs, or if it could use the surpluses, if there were any surpluses, which turned out to be very few

Mr. DONOHUE. Now, in connection with storage facilities, did you find in any of your storage facilities in this area that you were not utilizing them to an appreciable extent and that there would be space open for utilization by other services?

Captain De Vos. No. I think Admiral Gaffney could best answer all your questions with regard to the storage facilities. We have made very few storage-facilities studies.

Mr. DONOHUE. How about the use of air fields?

Captain De Vos. Yes, sir; they were also considered.

Mr. DONOHUE. Let's see is there someone here who can answer specific questions on that?

Captain De Vos. Captain Ellis and Captain Lyon for NATS. Mr. DONOHUE. Has the commandant of the Twelfth Naval District submitted to the western sea frontier any recommendations? Captain De Vos. Yes, sir; they are before the Board now. Mr. DONOHUE. I see.

Captain De Vos. He has also submitted a list-we have a list from the three commandants of such facilities as are being currently utilized jointly.

Mr. ANDERSON. Is that a list similar to the one that we had prepared for us?

Mr. DONOHUE. I haven't seen the Navy list.

Mr. ANDERSON (examining list). I believe that this list should. also be made a part of the record along with the list that was submitted by the War Department to us at an earlier date.

Mr. DONOHUE. That will be numbered exhibit 8.

(The document above referred to, marked "Exhibit 8," is filed in connection with this record.)

Mr. ANDERSON. Anything further?

Mr. DONOHUE. How recently has this Joint Board met, Captain .DE VOS?

Captain De Vos. I don't remember the date of our last meeting. It was toward the end of August, sir.

Mr. DONOHUE. There haven't been any further active meetings of any kind, then, between the representatives of the Army and Navy, and so forth?

Captain De Vos. No, sir; we were waiting for certain recommendations and comments from the commandant of the Thirteenth Naval District in regard to certain recommendations made by the commanding general in Fort Lewis in that area.

Mr. DONOHUE. These meetings not only took into consideration the San Francisco area, but how wide an area?

Captain De Vos. The entire Pacific coast, the three naval areas. Mr. DONOHUE. That would extend from the southern point of California up to Washington?

Captain DE Vos. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOHUE. And these recommendations in here include installations throughout that area?

Captain De Vos. No, sir. That is a list of such facilities that are currently being utilized, sir. Our recommendations have not yet been completed.

Mr. DONOHUE. I see.

I think we ought to get into the specific questions on the supply facilities, sir, at this time.

Mr. ANDERSON. Yes. Who is here?

Captain TILLSON. That would be Admiral Gaffney.

Mr. ANDERSON. Before you leave the stand, Captain, I would like to ask what conclusions, if any, were reached in your joint studies about such matters as, say, the joint use of reserve armories. Was that discussed at all Captain De Vos?

Captain De Vos. It was discussed to some degree. We have not reached a conclusion.

Mr. ANDERSON. Are you also giving consideration to such things as the joint use by NATS and ATC of air fields, or joint use of recruit

ing stations, joint use of water transportation, matters of that kind? Are they also receiving study?

Captain De Vos. Some of those would be on Washington level. NATS would be on Washington level.

Captain TILLSON. Recruiting stations are also on the Washington level.

Mr. ANDERSON. Are you in the position to speak about those, Captain Tilson?

Captain TILLSON. No, sir; I merely know from contact that that is an item under discussion in Washington.

Mr. ANDERSON. But we can be assured, then, that consideration is being given to those very questions at the present time?

Captain De Vos. Yes.

Mr. ANDERSON. Jointly by the Army and Navy and by the Air Forces?

Colonel BRECKINRIDGE. That is being studied and has been under study for approximately 6 months. I can confirm that.

Captain De Vos. And locally too, sir.

Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Holifield.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Captain, does the facility at Port Hueneme come. under your jurisdiction in this study?

Captain De Vos. Yes, sir.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. What type of facilities do you have there at the present time?

Captain De Vos. I think Admiral Gaffney could answer that question.

Mr. ANDERSON. I think he can answer the questions with respect to specific supply installations.

Anything further of these gentlemen? (No response.) We will excuse these gentlemen and ask Admiral Gaffney to please come forward.

(Witnesses excused.)

TESTIMONY OF REAR ADM. JOHN GAFFNEY, SUPPLY OFFICER IN

COMMAND, NAVAL SUPPLY CENTER, OAKLAND, CALIF.

Mr. DONOHUE. Will you identify yourself to the reporter, sir? Admiral GAFFNEY. I am Rear Adm. John Gaffney, supply officer in command, Naval Supply Center, Oakland, Calif.

Mr. DONOHUE. And you have a statement, a prepared statement, to make to the committee?

Admiral GAFFNEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOHUE. Will you proceed with that, sir?

Admiral GAFFNEY. It is a general statement descriptive of the functions and organization of supply in the San Francisco area as headed up by the Naval Supply Center, Oakland.

Mr. ANDERSON. Admiral, for the benefit of the reporter, if a copy of your statement is available, the reporter will not have to take this down unless there are interpolations.

Admiral GAFFNEY. The Naval Supply Center, Oakland, as an integral part of the over-all Navy supply system, is charged with providing logistics matériel support in certain categories of material in terms of wholesale and retail operation to the industrial establishment of the Navy in the Twelfth Naval District on the west coast and to