That is the next red area down the channel and is a separate port of its own.

The Stockton Ordnance Depot, I should like to show you. This [indicating] is the original map of the Stockton Ordnance Depot as it existed. We have now taken back from the Army this port area, the north side of the railroad track, as you probably know. It is city owned and operated by a port commission. We are talking about this area that lies south to the Santa Fe tracks, some 294 acres. As far as the city and port commission are concerned we are most anxious to obtain this area as soon as possible for industrial sites. At this moment there are some 400 or 500 people employed there and very little activity. It is administered by Benicia, and the storage there is of automotive wheel vehicles, ammunition, and small ordnance. For purposes of consolidation and economy, it is suggested that the operation of the Stockton General Depot (now located and operating at Lathrop), be continued.

That storage and issue of all of the technical services then be centered at this point as soon as those supplies located in Tracy and Sacramento are depleted.

This consolidation of the present Army supplies can be accomplished most economically because:

(1) It will not be necessary to move these outlying depot stocks before they are issued.

(2) The present facilities at Lathrop are more than adequate. (3) Size of present administrative staff would not have to be increased.

(4) Present semipermanent buildings are adequate for several years. It is further suggested that when full consolidation of the Armed Services supplies (that is, both Army and Navy supplies), is possiblein keeping with the unification of the Armed Forces-that the Stockton General Depot and the Stockton Ordnance Depot be moved to the site of the Stockton Naval Annex on Rough and Ready Island in Stockton, and at that time it can be determined if the Stockton General Depot at Lathrop is needed for overflow or emergency.

This full consolidation of the Armed Services supplies in Stockton is most logical when, in addition to the foregoing reasons, the following is considered: (1) Stockton's geographical location, (2) Stockton's transportation facilities. Remember that Stockton has three transcontinental railroads and a deep-water channel to the west coast. (3) The facilities of Rough and Ready Island.

If this suggested plan is followed (first, the consolidation of all Army supplies at the present Stockton General Depot, and second, the final consolidation of all the Armed Forces supplies on Rough and Ready Island), the consolidation will follow in logical sequence and will result in all supplies eventually being concentrated at one point, resulting in the maximum efficiency of operation.

That is our presentation, gentlemen, and our suggestion. We have copies of this whole statement for you.

With me is Mr. Walter Hogan, our city manager, who would like to add a word with your permission.

Mr. ANDERSON. After your beautiful selling job I do not see how anyone could live anywhere but in Stockton. [Laughter.]

Mr. Cook. Thank you, sir.

Witness excused.

Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Hogan?

TESTIMONY OF W. G. HOGAN, CITY MANAGER, STOCKTON, CALIF.

Mr. DONOHUE. Please give your name and your position to the reporter.

Mr. HOGAN. W. B. Hogan, city manager of the city of Stockton, Calif.

Gentlemen, Mr. Cook has covered our presentation very nicely. I want to say just a few words in connection with the military installations in and around Stockton and in the county in general.

We have no problem in so far as these military installations are concerned as affecting our tax base. These installations in San Joaquin County are for the most part in the unincorporated areas. The only installations we have which are within the corporate limits of the city of Stockton are those housing projects which were built by FPHA and which are still necessary, but which will eventually be disposed of as the need for them has ended.

We believe that the Lathrop installation would be a logical one. We are not here to tell this committee where these installations should be. I understand that your province is primarily one of consolidation of existing facilities in the interest of economy, and for that move, or in that effort, I wish to lend my most hearty support to you. I think you are on the proper track. It is necessary that we economize in Government operations. We all know what happened during the war; that many of these installations had to be put up in a hurry and now is the time that we should consider the elimination of those that are unnecessary in the interest of economy.

Mr. RIZLEY. May I ask you a question?

Mr. HOGAN. Yes.

Mr. RIZLEY. Were. these facilities that were described by the preceding witness secured during the last war?

Mr. HOGAN. That is correct, all since 1940-41.

If the committee decides to visit Stockton we would like to show you the Lathrop installation, the Tracy installation, and the ordnance depot so you will have first-hand knowledge of these.

Mr. ANDERSON. It is the purpose of the subcommittees, following our hearings here, to make a trip, not only to Stockton, but throughout the entire Bay Area, to visit as many of these installations which are being discussed here as time permits.

Mr. HOGAN. Fine: We will be looking forward to seeing you.
Mr. ANDERSON. Thank you.

Witness excused.

SUPPLEMENTAL DATA

(Submitted on September 16, 1947, for inclusion in the record)

STATEMENT OF REPRESENTATIVE LEROY JOHNSON, THIRD DISTRICT OF

CALIFORNIA

Chairman Anderson and gentlemen of the committee, I am very sorry indeed that I am not home when the subcommittee of the Armed Services Committee of the House of Representatives is meeting in Stockton. It would have been a great pleasure to give you a personal welcome to my home city. However, I determined to make the trip to Europe with some of our colleagues and that accounts for my absence. I am asking Mr. Cook to present this brief statement to you.

Regarding the problem which you are investigating, I believe I have considerable personal knowledge that may be of interest and perhaps of value to you. I spent 10 years working on the Stockton waterway project, which is a project that

This

brings a 34-foot channel to Stockton 75 miles inland from San Francisco. makes me familiar with the transportation facilities of this city and also with the situation which gives us terminal rail rates. In this city any installation such as the Stockton Naval Annex not only enjoys terminal rates but practically any size ship can dock at its wharf. It means that the rates to Stockton from the Middle West and East are as cheap and in some instances cheaper than to Ogden or Salt Lake and the rates from here to the installations to be served by the depot here are much lower in 90 percent of the shipments.

Stockton is in the center of the great Central Valley and every transcontinental railroad that comes to California enters Stockton and ties to the port terminal railway. This enables cargo to go with equal facility from any port to any railroad entering Stockton and likewise from any railroad to any ship which may be anchored at this port.

As you undoubtedly know, near Stockton is the Stockton general depot which was extensively used during the war as a holding and intransit depot. It is still intact and has, as you will note from your inspection, magnificent warehouse and loading facilities, tracks, etc. It is still available for general depot purposes and is within easy range of 85 percent of the commodities required by the installations of the Sixth Army Area and the Pacific bases. Furthermore, on Rough and Ready Island, now entirely owned by the United States, there is still much land available which might be utilized in the future should it be determined advisable to construct a depot on the waterfront. With the consolidation of the armed services undoubtedly both the Navy and the Army could work together on this island and perhaps in some instances use joint facilities and in others each have their own facilities.

I merely mention these things to you to give you a general idea of the facilities which are available in this city. Undoubtedly, no single city in the West has as many rail and water facilities centered in one place as Stockton has. Practically every ocean vessel afloat can dock at Stockton. These matters will be given you more in detail by the chamber of commerce of Stockton, with specific statements as to rates available, etc.

I have been trying to tell my friends both here and in other places in my district that the Army and Navy makes its selection of places to be used as stations, depots, etc., entirely on the basis of merit. That is why I feel justified in mentioning something about Stockton, my home city. It only wants facilities, based on merit alone.

Also, I may mention that in, Sacramento is a large Signal Corps depot established after the war in which there is available space should the one in Stockton not be quite large enough for a general depot. The Sacramento depot could easily be used in conjunction with the Stockton depot.

I merely make this brief statement for your consideration for whatever it may be worth. As I told my friends, your committee is not trying to establish or select sites for installations. You are trying to consolidate and perhaps eliminate stations to the end that the Army and Navy may be operated more efficiently and give more national security for the same money or give the same amount of national security for less money. We appreciate and feel complimented to know that you thought some of the places in my district worth visiting and considering. Whatever your decision I am sure your conclusions will be right.

Mr. RUSSELL. The Rough and Ready installation is a permanent one, costing some $41,000,000 to put up.

Mr. DONOHUE. Is there any gentleman here from Benicia, or from the Vallejo area that has anything further to add to the testimony of Mr. Russell?

TESTIMONY OF REV. MILLER B. SALE, ST. PAUL'S CHURCH AND MEMBER OF MILITARY AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, BENICIA, CALIF.

Reverend SALE. I am the Reverend Miller B. Sale, of St. Paul's Church, and a member of the Military Affairs Committee of Benicia. I just want to say a word for those who spoke for the VallejoBenicia group.

67877-48-pt. 1- -3

We have, in Benicia, a 93-year old installation, with nearly 1,000 acres of available land beyond that which is already being used for storage and for ordnance.

I might say, in spite of the fact that the gentleman, Mr. Cook, from Stockton, who didn't seem to know anything at all about the situation that we remarked to him 60 days ago at his meeting that the Ordnance Department that is located in Stockton is a small portion of the very large ordnance installation that is at Benicia. And characteristic of those double-crossing so-and-so's, why, they haven't got anything. The remark was made by them at the time of the meeting with that group that they would be tickled to death to get all of that out of their county.

The fact remains that we have had 37 years of experience with the military and naval personnel in Solano County, and we know how to handle our tax situation.

Instead of being over in the middle of a remote and heated desert, we are in an ideal climate which has outside winter storage. We are 28 miles from San Francisco, 25 miles from Oakland, and we have all of the educational and other facilities which any community could possibly have to take care of our increase in installations.

Another thing is that we do not have irrigated land to offer, but we do have land that can be purchased at from $15 to $30 an acre and would relieve some of these very, very highly, perhaps exaggeratedly valued lands around the rest of the bay area." It remains that if we could get rid of some of these pieces of land over here, which these people unquestionably will be able to pay the lowest prices for and sell at the highest prices, and they are complaining about wanting to get rid of the Army, Navy and the Marine Corps, we would be glad to have them in Solano County and we could get them and hold them cheaper than any of the rest of these high-priced installations on irrigated land.

Mr. ANDERSON. Thank you. (Witness excused.)

Mr. ANDERSON. I think I am going to have to ask further witnesses to refer to the climate as California climate. I do not want my colleague from Oklahoma to think we are fighting about it.

ter.]

Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Herrington, local realtor?

Mr. HARRIGAN. Do you mean Mr. Harrigan?
Mr. DONOHUE. Possibly, yes.

[Laugh

TESTIMONY OF ANDREW L. HARRIGAN, REALTOR, SAN

FRANCISCO, CALIF.

Mr. DONOHUE. Give your name and position to the reporter, please. Mr. HARRIGAN. Andrew L. Harrigan, realtor.

Mr. DONOHUE. As I understand it, Mr. Harrigan, you have some information to present to the committee relative to the need for industrial areas within the city of San Francisco, the calls that have been made on you in the course of your business to furnish such land, and the land that you have been able to find to fill these orders, or not fill them.

Mr. HARRIGAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. DONOHUE. Then, will you give a general picture to the committee of that situation?

Mr. HARRIGAN. Yes. For the last 47 years I have been dealing in industrial properties here in San Francisco. It has come now to a point where we have not sufficient land in San Francisco to take care of industries wishing to locate here or wishing to expand.

When the Islais Creek reclamation district went into effect it was planned that that would be the portion of San Francisco for future industry. As the map shows-probably you are familiar with it— they closed many streets, in some instances two and three streets, to create large areas for these industries. I have sold within the present enclosure over one million and a quarter square feet of land for users.

At the time that the Government took over this land we figured it was a temporary proposition. On the Southern Pacific properties. there, they practically placed their own price on, and the people to whom we sold, the same way. Leases were made for 3 years, some with an extension in case of emergency, and others with a definite date ending in 1948. It now develops that we find ourselves in a position where we are not able to use the land that was purchased for such use.

I could give the committee the names of those people and the areas which they purchased.

The fact is that a survey of that land today will show that the Government is using less than one-half of the area in permanent building structures, and the other 50 percent or more for open storage. Now, if it is not possible for the Government to relinquish that land on which the buildings are located it might be possible for them to find other land in the adjacent counties for this open storage and give us the benefit of using the land that is now used by them for open storage for our industry. It would create many million feet in there which we could occupy and which I can assure you will be filled immediately by industries which will help San Francisco and its pay roll.

As I say, we have always considered that a temporary arrangement with the Government. The sewers in the district are not in conformity with the requirements of the city and county. I do not know as to how the buildings are, but the buildings are frame buildings, with corrugated asbestos covering, and I don't know how long it will last, but they are purely of a temporary nature.

If the Government will relinquish any of this property I can assure you it will be filled immediately, and that the 50 percent that is now used for open storage would be filled with industries which would help the pay roll of San Francisco and the people here in this county. I think that is about all I can tell you, and if you wish to ask questions I will attempt to answer them.

Mr. DONOHUE. Isn't it true, Mr. Harrigan, that the present interest of industry in acquiring this Islais Creek property is due in large part to the fact that the services that took over the property improved it considerably. that prior to the time it was taken over it was wasteland, or swampland, and it has now been filled in and brought up to a position of where it is industrially usable?

Mr. HARRIGAN. No. Before the Government took over that land there was created the Islais Creek reclamation district. All of that