Mr. GREEN. The tax roll, insofar as the Government is concerned, Federal-owned property and property under lease constitutes about 10 percent of the total tax rolls. There is a lot of that that cannot get back on the rolls. The citizens of our community wouldn't want on the rolls such as the Oakland naval base, and the Army base, and other organizations of that character, which the community as a whole wishes to remain.

Mr. DONOHUE. You mean that you are deriving considerable benefit from the maintenance of those installations by virtue of Federal pay rolls?

Mr. GREEN. Absolutely. We want them to remain. They are necessary for the welfare of the country as a whole. They are ideal sites and probably could not be duplicated anywhere around the bay

area.

Mr. DONOHUE. Just what institutions are you referring to?

Mr. GREEN. The Oak Knoll Hospital, and the San Leandro Naval Hospital, which covers 300 or 400 acres, which is apparently now in the process of being abandoned, we believe should be restored to the county tax rolls. The Hayward Air Base, which covers a material acreage has, I believe, already been returned to the city of Hayward.

We have the problem in the old Oakland Hotel property, which is now taken over by the Veterans' Administration, which we feel could have gone to an equally good, or better location for their particular purposes. The Oakland Hotel occupies an entire city block in the metropolitan center of the city of Oakland. The last assessed valuation of that property was, in round figures, about $450,000. The city and the county does not derive any benefit from this property. We believe that that hospital could have been more favorably or better located for its particular purposes.

There are foundries in Oakland, or Berkeley, which the Government took over during the war which should be restored to practical use for the welfare of the community. The Government has no further use for them.

Mr. DONOHUE. Are they still in active operation, do you know, or have they been declared surplus-what is their status?

Mr. GREEN. I am not familiar with that. I have not been out there for some time.

Mr. DONOHUE. What about the Veterans' Hospital, is that being used to capacity?

Mr. GREEN. That is being used at the present time and probably will continue to be used for some little time.

Mr. DONOHUE. Why do you say the Naval Hospital at San Leandro and Oak Knoll appear to be ready to be abandoned? Do you mean nobody is there?

Mr. GREEN. To all outward appearances they are being abandoned. Mr. DONOHUE. You mean they have no patients there?

Mr. GREEN. They have no patients. Apparently nobody is there but the custodian. As I say, it occupies about 400 acres.

Mr. DONOHUE. Are there any other naval hospitals in your immediate area, that is, in your county?

Mr. GREEN. Yes. There are such hospitals in different portions of the county. I couldn't give you the details. There are numerous ones scattered around. There is the veterans' hospital at Livermore

which has been established for many years. That we don't want to see removed. It is an ideal location for it.

Mr. DONOHUE. You are talking about a veterans' hospital in that case?.

Mr. GREEN. Yes. It is under the control of the Veterans' Administration.

Mr. ANDERSON. I would like to interrupt there for a moment. In view of the fact that Mr. Green has named here several specific pieces of property which he feels might be returned to the county tax rolls, if and when they are declared surplus, I am wondering if you have prepared in your office a list of the property that you in Alameda County feel might well be returned by the Government to the local tax rolls?

Mr. GREEN. We have prepared and delivered to the San Francisco Bay area council a list of all federally owned properties in our county, as well as all leased properties, which list sets forth the acreage and the assessed valuation of the land and improvements, the total of which amounts in round figures to a little in excess of $61,000,000 assessed valuation.

Mr. ANDERSON. That is available to us, Mr. Donohue?

Mr. DONOHUE. We haven't that.

Mr. GREEN. The San Francisco Bay area council undoubtedly will give you their report.

Mr. DONOHUE. Then we will have that.

Mr. GREEN. That gives a break-down of it.

Mr. RIZLEY. Is that report going to be made a part of the record of this hearing?

Mr. HARLOW. We have it.

Mr. RIZLEY. Who offered it?

Mr. ANDERSON. Mr. Turkington.

Mr. DONOHUE. That was filed in a previous hearing in Washington. Mr. RIZLEY. It may have been before the Armed Services Committee, but as far as I know the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments has no such report.

Mr. DONOHUE. We have that for our files.

Mr. RIZLEY. But it has not been made a part of the official record at any hearing thus far, has it?

Mr. DONOHUE. No.

Mr. RIZLEY. I think it should be included in the record here. Some of it, I do not know how much, may be surplus.

Mr. DONOHUE. True.

Mr. GREEN. I have a copy of it I could leave with the committee. Mr. DONOHUE. We have a copy.

Mr. RIZLEY. I suggest that it be made a part of some official record so it can be referred to in any report that I might want to make to my full committee so I can refer to it.

Mr. ANDERSON. It will be made a part of the record of the hearings here.

Mr. DONOHUE. That will be exhibit No. 1.

(The report issued by the San Francisco Bay area council entitled "Bay Area Property Owned and Leased by the Federal Government, marked "Exhibit No. 1," is filed in connection with this record.)

Mr. GREEN. That report condenses the situation in all the bayarea counties and gives the pertinent facts that this committee would

be interested in. It gives the assessed valuations, the acreage involved, and so forth.

In addition to the properties that I have mentioned we have Camp Shoemaker out in the Livermore Valley, which covers a very, very extensive acreage, which evidently now is in the process of being abandoned. I was out there a few days ago and there is no activity there, no soldiers stationed there. The county of Alameda has taken over a portion of it for the county jail and undoubtedly they will retain that.

There is nothing more I can add that will be of any assistance to the committee, other than the statement that Mr. Keesling has made and the report that I have just referred to.

Mr. ANDERSON. Any further questions?

Mr. DONOHUE. No questions.

Mr. RIZLEY. I would like to ask a question.
Mr. ANDERSON. Yes.

Mr. RIZLEY. Of these 4,000 acres of real estate in Alameda County that you say are owned by the Federal Government, do you know what proportional part, if any, has heretofore been declared surplus to the needs of any agency?

Mr. GREEN. No.

Mr. RIZLEY. Will this break-down of the bay area show the amount of the property as of that date that had been declared surplus? Mr. GREEN. No; I don't think it will.

Mr. HARLOW. No.

Mr. RIZLEY. Mr. Donohue, unless you have some information, or other witnesses coming on, I frankly can't see where it is going to be of much benefit to the Committee on Surplus Property. Undoubtedly some of it is surplus. I would like to know in these hearings if I can, Mr. Chairman, for the benefit of my committee at least, I would like to have some of these properties identified. Here are 4,000 acres in one county that have been declared surplus. I would like to know how long it has been surplus, and what has been done by the War Assets Administration toward offering the property.

Those are some of the things I would like to have developed. Mr. DONOHUE. We have a list of that information here. These [indicating] are in Alameda County. These [indicating] are the installations that have been declared surplus up to the time we came out to the hearings.

We will have witnesses testify to that.
Mr. RIZLEY. I have no other questions.
Mr. ANDERSON. Thank you, Mr. Green.
(Witness excused.)

Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Justin Randall?

TESTIMONY OF JUSTIN A. RANDALL, ASSESSOR of contrA

COSTA COUNTY

Mr. DONOHUE. Please give your name and position to the reporter. Mr. RANDALL. My name is Justin A. Randall, assessor of Contra Costa County.

Mr. DONOHUE. Mr. Randall, you are prepared to present to the committee a picture of the Federal holdings in Contra Costa County? Mr. RANDALL. Yes.

Mr. DONOHUE. That is, in the same manner that Mr. Greene has presented this information for Alameda County, is that correct?

Mr. RANDALL. Well, I am not going to argue about the surplus property because I don't know what the Army, Navy, and Marine Corps need in that county.

My only concern is that in connection with tax-exempt property, whether it be Federal, State, or county.

I would like to see this federally owned property considered the same as Federal housing, that is, pay on what we call a reasonable assessed value on all those Federal holdings in lieu of taxes in order to relieve the local government, both city and county.

That is the only suggestion I have to make to your committee. With respect to surplus property that should be disposed of in Contra Costa County I know of one property that has been disposed of and that is the county airport located at Pacheco.

There is under consideration right now, between the Parr Richmond Terminal Corp. and, I think, the Kaiser interests, the matter of purchasing portions of Shipyards Nos. 1 and 2, located at Richmond. I do not believe anything definite has been settled on the selling price as yet. It seems they cannot get together on the price. As far as I know that is the only surplus property in our county at the present time.

Richmond Shipyard No. 3 is a permanent installation that should be held by the Government.

Then there is Camp Stoneman, and the naval installation for a storage depot at Point San Pablo.

I am very much concerned because the cost of local government has increased considerably in the last 6 years. I think the committee should consider the payment in lieu of taxes for the amount of value that is represented by Federal holdings.

Mr. RIZLEY. Pardon me for interrupting. That is what a lot of these communities want. They want the benefit of all of this Federal spending by people who stay on those projects, and then they still want the Federal Government, through the taxpayers as a whole all over the country, to pay to that particular community in lieu of taxes an amount that would equal the taxes if it went back on the tax roll. That, of course, is very fine for the community, but not so fine for the Federal taxpayers as a whole.

If you have Federal property that is needed, that is one thing. But here you are talking about property that you do not know whether is needed, or has been declared surplus. Still you say your main interest is to see that Congress provides that that particular community gets something in lieu of taxes.

Mr. RANDALL. I think I can speak for every assessor in the State of California. Every assessor in the State of California is against tax exemption of any kind on any kind of property. There is more exempt property on the tax roll each year.

Mr. RIZLEY. Don't you think, instead of the Federal Government paying in lieu of taxes, if there is a lot of property that isn't absolutely needed that it ought to be gotten rid of by the Federal Government, turned back to private industry and put on the tax roll in the regular way, rather than payment in lieu of taxes?

Mr. RANDALL. In case of any catastrophe every facility of the county is called upon to take part in that catastrophe, just as in the case of the fire on Treasure Island and the Port Chicago naval explo

sion and fire. Contra Costa County has spent plenty of money on that. I think the Federal Government should contribute something to the support of those facilities.

Mr. ANDERSON. Anything further?

Mr. RIZLEY. No.

Mr. ANDERSON. Any more questions, Mr. Donohue?

Mr. DONOHUE. No.

Mr. ANDERSON. Any questions, Mr. Harlow?

Mr. HARLOW. No questions.

Mr. ANDERSON. Thank you.

(Witness excused.)

Mr. DONOHUE. W. E. Andrews?

Mr. ANDREWs. In accordance with our previous conversation, Mr. Russell will make the presentation for Solano County.

TESTIMONY OF B. H. RUSSELL, MANAGER, VALLEJO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, VALLEJO, CALIF.

Mr. DONOHUE. Give your name and position to the reporter, please.

Mr. RUSSELL. B. H. Russell, manager of the Vallejo Chamber of Commerce. However, our statement will clarify the point that we are testifying more or less for Solano County.

Mr. ANDERSON. Do you have a prepared statement?

Mr. RUSSELL. We do. It is very brief. Then we will be open for questioning.

Mr. ANDERSON. Proceed.

Mr. RUSSELL. This is a statement of the Solano County representatives to the House of Representatives Armed Services Subcommittee on Procurement and Supply, and the Surplus Property Subcommittee of the House of Representatives Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments, Monday, September 15, 1947.

I am here today, gentlemen, as a representative of Solano County interests; namely, the Military Affairs Committee of the City of Benicia and of the Vallejo Chamber of Commerce; and I am speaking the unified thoughts of Vallejo, Benicia, and the surrounding areas in Solano County.

This presentation is twofold. First, we have within our county several Federal installations-the three of major importance being the large naval installation at Mare Island, the Army air base of Fairfield-Suisun, and the Army ordnance depot at Benicia Arsenal. Let me point out that we are extremely desirious of retaining these installations and welcome expansion of existing facilities as deemed necessary to our national defense. We are fully aware of the purposes for which these subcommittees are here and would also like to point out that Solano County has no problem regarding the tax structure as now existing with these industrial installations. Our area has had approximately 100 years' experience in dealing with this type of installation and is extremely proud of its contribution to our national defense; and our citizens are willing and capable of taking care of our tax problems as they currently relate to these installations under existing law.

Our only problem of federally owned properties, as directly relates to our tax program, lies in two Navy-owned housing projects. These installations are Roosevelt Terrace and Guadalcanal Village. No in