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Mr. SHRIVER. That would be available in both places, Senator, and we have prepared a suggested amendment to eliminate the word "confidential there because it is really not confidential. It is an expenditure of the type that would be prudent for the agency to bear on behalf of a volunteer, for example, or Peace Corps representative.

Sometimes there are cases where goods are stolen, for example, where somebody is en route to a post, and something prevents him from going to a post, and he has to stay at a point where he did not expect to, and maybe incur $100 or $200 expenses, and does not have the money to pay

for it. Senator AIKEN. Yes. I was going to ask you to give an instance of anything of a confidential character other than entertainment, but you have given it.

Mr. SHRIVER. It really is not confidential. We have prepared an amendment to eliminate that word.

ENTERTAINMENT EXPENSES AND REPRESENTATION ALLOWANCES

(The following additional information was subsequently furnished by the Peace Corps :)

During the hearing which took place on June 22, Mr. Shriver stated that the $5,000 authorized for entertainment on page 27, lines 12 through 14 of the Peace Corps bill, was for expenditure within the United States. In contrast to this, it was stated that the $8,500 budgeted for representation allowances (p. 24 of the Peace Corps presentation book) was for expenditure abroad.

It is true that to the extent the proposed entertainment expenses authority is utilized, the funds would be spent primarily in the United States. Strictly speaking, however, there is no geographic limit on the proposed authority. The funds in question would be available, under the supervision of the Peace Corps budget officer to cover expenses incurred by Peace Corps personnel to whom no representation allowance was available. Representation allowances would be available to persons appointed for overseas service under section 7(c) of the bill, to Peace Corps country representatives appointed under section 7(e), and to persons detailed or assigned to foreign governments or international organizations under section 14(b). The $5,000 entertainment authority would be available to the Director and Deputy Director of the Peace Corps and to other Peace Corps personnel appointed under section 7(a) or 7(b), and would be available to them both in the United States and abroad.

SUPERVISION OVER TANGANYIKAN PROJECT

Senator AIKEN. Somebody who was looking over the first list of 28 young people accepted for Tanganyika called my attention to the fact that one of them was about 29, another 31, and the others recent graduates. Would the 29-year-old or the 31-year-old be supervisors of the others?

Mr. SIIRIVER. Not necessarily; no, sir.

Senator AIKEN. What kind of supervision do you expect to have for them?

Mr. SHRIVER. Well, in the Tanganyikan project most of the supervision will be supervision given by Government officials of Tanganyika. These people will be working for the Ministry of Communications in Tanganyika, and they will be under the supervision of experienced people in that Government service, so we do not anticipate, as I said here a few minutes ago, supplying any volunteer leaders in the Tanganyikan project.

In the Philippine project, for example, we do intend to supply volunteer leaders, but not in Tanganyika.

In Tanganyika we will probably have a Peace Corps representative or somebody fulfilling that function on the staff of the U.S. mission there. We do not have an ambassador to that country because it is not independent, but after the 28th of December it will be independent. The Peace Corps representative will represent Peace Corps interests in that country.

OPPORTUNITIES FOR OLDER PEOPLE AND RETIRED PEOPLE

Senator AIKEN. Have you given any consideration to the employment of older people or retired people in any capacity?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, sir; we have, and we feel that there are many opportunities for older people and for retired people in Peace Corps work. There do not happen to be opportunities in this Tanganyikan project for such people, or in the Colombian one, but there are a number of others where there definitely could be, they definitely could be utilized.

Senator AIKEN. Older people, of course, would be used to better advantage where they were in a supervisory or advisory capacity?

Mr. SHRIVER. Well, in the case of Peace Corps representatives, for example, in a foreign country, it is quite likely that most of those will be older people. When I say older, I mean older than the Peace Corps volunteers.

Senator AIKEN. Yes.

Mr. SHRIVER. Now, there is also work to be done by retired people in some projects in some countries, and we would very greatly welcome retired people.

For example, agricultural extension agents, I think, automatically retired by the Department of Agriculture at 65 years of age, many of them have a number of fine years of good work still open to them, and countries, various countries, want agricultural extension workers. We would like to get people like that, and we have told the Department of Agriculture, and the Department of Agriculture I think has circularized its agricultural extension workers, indicating that we want men who are about to retire or who have retired.

Senator AIKEN. I understand also some of the larger corporations retire their officials or key employees at an even younger age, at 60.

Mr. SHRIVER. That is correct.

Senator AIKEN. And it seems as if they could be used to good advantage, and at a time when they know more than they ever did before and are able to do better work than they ever did before. Mr. SHIRIVER. I agree with you.

. As a matter of fact, we have a provision in this bill, Senator, which would make it possible for us to take persons who are entitled to Government pensions and put them to work in the Peace Corps under circumstances which would not require them to give up their pension in order to serve the Peace Corps, and this is an indication of our desire, at any rate, to get people who are retired into our work. We want them very much.

Senator AIKEN. Just so long as their pension and their pay do not exceed the total amount of remuneration which they were receiving

at the time of retirement. I think that would be called to your attention anyway.

It seems to me that one of the best opportunities you, or perhaps the ICA, have is to make use of these people who are at their peak at a time of retirement, and I hope you will take advantage of it and make the best possible use of it.

Mr. SHRIVER. As I said, we would welcome volunteers of that type, and if any members of the committee know of any people who wish to be considered, we would be happy to hear from the members of the committee about them.

Senator AIKEN. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
I have a 12:30 appointment.
The CHAIRMAN. The Senator from Ohio.
Senator LAUSCHE. I would like to ask some questions later.
The CHAIRMAN. You can both ask some now and some later,

U.N. AND U.S. TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE EXPENDITURES

Senator LAUSCHE. Are you able to tell me how much money is appropriated by the United Nations for the specific purpose of providing technical aid to foreign countries?

Mr. SHRIVER. I suppose it is possible to tell, Senator, but I do not have that figure with me.

Senator LAUSCHE. Do you know how much is provided in our mutual aid program for the provision of technical aid to foreign countries?

Mr. SHRIVER. No, sir; I do not know what the provisions are in the new aid program for that purpose.

Senator LAUSCHE. That is, you do not know how much money is now being expended either through the United Nations or through our Government in the provision of technical assistance to underdeveloped countries?

Mr. SHRIVER. No, sir; and to that figure, I think, one would have to add the technical assistance being provided through private voluntary agencies and religious groups. I do not have the cost of that, either.

TYPES OF WORK TO BE UNDERTAKEN BY VOLUNTEERS

Senator LAUSCHE. Have you made a study of how your work will differ from that being done now by the United Nations and by our point 4 technical aid program?

Mr. SIIRIVER. Yes, sir. We have attempted to make studies along that line.

Senator LAUSCHE. In your letter to me, following questions which I asked you, you stated in paragraph 3:

Peace Corps volunteers will not go simply to give advice, but to undertake operational tasks side by side with, and often subordinate to, the people of foreign countries. Our people will not be technical experts and advisers, they will be doers, workers.

By that am I to understand that they are to do the work?
Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. They will go to, let us say, a foreign country and teach?

Mr. SHRIVER. That is correct.
Senator LAUSCHE. They will help build highways?
Mr. SHRIVER. In some cases, if we were asked.
Senator LAUSCHE. They will do nursing work in the hospitals ?
Mr. SHRIVER. Yes.
Senator LAUSCHE. They will do agricultural work in the fields ?
Mr. SHRIVER. Yes.

POSSIBLE ATTITUDES OF CERTAIN NATIONS TOWARD THE PEACE CORPS

Senator LAUSCHE. They will do sanitation work for the promotion of health.

Now, then, do you think you will have any difficulty with any country that asks you to send them gratuitously this type of worker?

Mr. SHRIVER. That we will have any difficulty with them?
Senator LAUSCHE. Yes.
Mr. SHRIVER. They will ask for it, do you mean?

Senator LAUSCHE. That is, will you have difficulty when a country says, “We don't want teachers, or engineers or nurses,” and you will answer them, “We will send them to you for nothing. They will work with you in the fields or the hospitals."

Do you think you will have any difficulty with countries asking for that type of help?

Mr. SHRIVER. Well, as I said before, we have not yet experienced it, but as Senator Hickenlooper pointed out a little while ago, there have been some countries which have denounced the Peace Corps and said that they did not want to have it come; at least that was the gist of the comments I heard him make.

So I suppose there are some countries which will not receive the kind of assistance you have described.

Senator LAUSCHE. Well, I can understand the Arab countries might say, “We don't want people coming here who are of the Jewish faith.” But philosophically and objectively, do you think that you

will encounter difficulty when you let the nations of the world know that we will send them teachers, nurses, engineers, highway builders, farmers, sanitation workers, and social workers without charge, and they will work with their people. Do you anticipate you will have trouble?

Mr. SHRIVER. Well, I hope not. But it has been very interesting to me, Senator, that in some of the countries, although we have said that we want to, they have responded that they want to pay the allowances of the people we send. They say to us in some countries, “We don't want outright grants or gifts or charity.”

Senator LAUSCHE. What answer do you give?

Mr. SHRIVER. We say we would be delighted to have them bear any part of the cost that they want to.

One of the foreign secretaries of one of the biggest countries said to me that he felt his country had a moral obligation to pay for part, at least part, of the cost of the Peace Corps volunteers in his country, and if they want to do that, we are willing, of course, to let them do it.

EXPERIENCE OF PRIVATE AND OFFICIAL AGENCIES CONSIDERED IN THE

ORGANIZATION OF THE PEACE CORPS

Senator LAUSCHE. All right.

In preparing your law on the elimination of political considerations in the selection of employees, you stated that you took the language out of the mutual aid program; is that correct?

Mr. SHRIVER. That clause with respect to policymaking officials in overseas posts?

Senator LAUSCHE. Yes.
Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, sir.
Senator LAUSCHE. All right.

As you began to formulate in your mind how this agency would operate, I assume that you called upon your knowledge and past experience to see if there were any other agencies operating in a similar field?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. And you found that the United Nations is operating, if slightly differently, in that field; is that right?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, sir.
In some of those

Senator LAUSCHE. And you found the mutual aid program is operating in the field ?

Mr. SHRIVER. In slightly different ways than we propose to; yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. And then you found that the various religious denominations were operating in this field?

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, again in a slightly different way in some cases, and for slightly different purposes.

INFLUENCE OF EXISTING RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS AND PRIVATE

AGENCIES

Senator LAUSCHE. But isn't it a fact that when you looked at the religious organizations, you concluded that they most closely resembled the operation which you would want to perform, and therefore you would call upon them to provide the men and give the direction in the rendering of the service!

Mr. SHRIVER. Well, they were not the only ones, Senator. I did not mean to leave that impression.

For example, we hope to work with universities and we think that they will provide men and render the supervision. We think that their record in the last 20 years in oversea operations has been very successful, and we want to work with them very closely.

Also I want to point out that we hope to work with the United Nations, and we have received requests from the United Nations for a large number of Peace Corps volunteers.

Senator LAUSCHE. Isn't it a fact, though, that your eyes centered primarily upon the religious organizations or private organizations, and upon the universities?

Mr. SHRIVER. No, sir; I would not say that.

Senator LAUSCHE. All right, sir, you have answered no. Isn't it a fact that you have 38 projects in contemplation for 1962, 18 of them with private agencies and 20 with universities, and that is all ?

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