Mr. RICE. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Have you any reservations on that?

Mr. RICE. Our reservations are only of the kind which we have outlined here, as feeling that the Peace Corps will not succeed unless it meets certain fundamental characteristics that are built into it. Senator SYMINGTON. Like what?

Mr. RICE. Such as the essentiality of very careful selection, training, and orientation, such as using nongovernmental groups as widely as possible.

Senator SYMINGTON. You think it should use nongovernmental groups as widely as possible?

Mr. RICE. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. What kind of groups?

Mr. RICE. Voluntary organizations, such as some of those who have testified before you today, universities, foundations, local and State governments, professional associations.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Shriver yesterday spent a lot of time explaining how carefully they intended to proceed in getting people, the right people, to do the job; so what you are doing, in effect, is saying you believe he was right in that presentation, are you not? Mr. RICE. Yes, sir.

DISCUSSION OF SELECTION OF PERSONNEL BY SCIENTIFIC METHODS

Senator SYMINGTON. Do you know of anything which makes you feel they may not use great care in choosing people?

Mr. RICE. I do not know of anything which makes me feel they will not use great care, but I do feel as yet the instruments or the techniques of selecting the best people are not well defined. This was something our study clearly showed-that nobody really knew exactly how to go about selecting these people.

Senator SYMINGTON. Well, how do you select the president of a company or a university? How do you select anybody you want to do a job? You sit down, talk to them, and you weigh their capabilities, do you not?

Mr. RICE. Absolutely, sir; and I think that unless there are more scientific, less intuitive methods, this was the way to do it. But most people believed that there should be more scientific ways of determining motivation, personality characteristics, and so forth, which areSenator SYMINGTON. What do you mean "scientific ways"?

Mr. RICE. Tests.

Senator SYMINGTON. What kind of tests?

Mr. RICE. Sir, I cannot answer what kind of tests, although we have listed in the appendix of this report a number of possible tests which need be examined, appendix E.

However, as I said, most people will agree that to select Americans for oversea service where different qualities are needed than in this country we do not yet have very good selection methods, because the qualities of cultural empathy, adaptability, flexibility, and so forth, which are not essential always in U.S. jobs, are essential for effectiveness abroad.

I hope the Peace Corps will give a good deal of its initial research to the problem of selection.

Senator SYMINGTON. Have you traveled in the Middle East?

Mr. RICE. No, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Have you traveled in Africa?

Mr. RICE. No, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. I was in a country in Africa not too long ago; 350 of all babies, our ICA man said, died before they were a year old out of each thousand born. I said those figures cannot be right. He said, "They may not be, it might be 750 out of a thousand. I am giving you the lower figure."

What kind of scientific tests do you have to pass in order to be of assistance in a problem like that if you want to help that country and show them some of the modern aspects of handling such a terrible problem?

I think we would both agree that whoever goes should have some knowledge, working knowledge, of the language of the country in question. We would agree on that, wouldn't we?

Mr. RICE. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. I do not quite see how you are going to take some kind of an IBM machine and, as a result, decide that a person is or is not capable of going to Africa or the Middle or Far East.

Mr. RICE. I do not mean to suggest, sir, this is the only technique to be used in selecting people; certainly not. The person's experience record, behavior

Senator SYMINGTON. Everybody likes to think they are practical. I like to think that I am practical, and I am sure you do, too.

You were a research associate at Colorado University Research Foundation, and your statement is to our committee.

Now, if you get Americans of good will who want to serve in the search for peace, through understanding, I do not see why that is not, except for the elemental aspects of experience, really what you are looking for. If you get somebody who can, in a specific case, help some specific disease, so much the better. But what worries me a bit is all this emphasis on scientific data and tests. You cannot hire people in corporations that way. Corporations are successful in getting the job done.

I do not quite see why apparently it is considered so much harder to get people for this type and character of a job than other types and characters of jobs.

Mr. RICE. I may be wrong, sir, but I have the impression that the U.S. corporations have devised quite elaborate scientific techniques for selecting personnel.

Senator SYMINGTON. You read a lot about that at certain lower levels. It is a good way to address a group and we have high class titles for such activities. But the truth is the man you want is one who has the inner fire and wants to learn, and is sympathetic, and understands people. I do not think that there is any way that you can put an instrument on a person's arm and decide whether or not he can or cannot do a job; at least I never felt that way about it.

NEED FOR PROPERLY TRAINED PERSONNEL

Mr. RICE. The great difference, sir, between a job in this country and a job overseas is that you are working in a different culture. You have different you are working with different values, different cues, cues by which you behave sociall

Senator SYMINGTON. What country have you been in overseas that makes you feel that way?

Mr. RICE. I have been in Latin America and Europe and the Far East, but it is not just the way I feel about it, sir. This is the way most of the people who have studied this thing I do not know if you have read the book called The Overseas Americans, which was published last year by Syracuse University.

Senator SYMINGTON. Obviously the more you know about a country, the more assistance you can be. For some years now I have recommended a Foreign Service Academy so we can have people technically proficient, for example, in tribal dialects, the hard languages, not just languages which most people speak if they speak any other language. I am getting apprehensive having gone into these countries, about the importance of waiting while people are being completely trained, you might say, because on that basis we will wait another 2 or 3 years, have everybody completely trained, and will have lost some countries. It seems to me that the best part about the Peace Corps is the idea itself. I am sure that there will be some failure of some people who go out. These failures will be written up in books, and people will make money on their criticisms.

On the other hand, I am also sure there will be some great successes, which probably will not be written up.

I worry about it, about all the technical aspects of the problem, advanced as against the basic concept in effect a practical expression of the Sermon on the Mount, the desire to show the people of the world that we want to help.

Mr. RICE. However, the best evidence is, sir, that those who come out just because they want to help others and do a good job are not necessarily the most capable people of doing the job.

Senator SYMINGTON. You think somebody who was extremely capable technically but did not believe in the job would be better?

Mr. RICE. No, sir. I think motivation is important. It is essential but it is not adequate.

It is necessary, but it is not a sufficient thing.

Senator SYMINGTON. What you are saying is, the better trained the people are, providing they have the right motivation, the better job they will do.

Mr. RICE. I think that is completely true.

Senator SYMINGTON. I agree with you.

Senator SPARKMAN. Thank you very much.
Mr. RICE. Thank you.

Senator SPARKMAN. Next will be Dr. W. Harold Row, executive secretary of the Brethren Service Commission, Elgin, Ill.

STATEMENT OF W. HAROLD ROW, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY AND DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL SERVICES, BRETHREN SERVICE COMMISSION

Mr. Row. Mr. Chairman and members of the commission, my name is W. Harold Row. I live in Elgin, Ill. I serve as executive secretary and Director of International Services of the Brethren Service Commission, General Brotherhood Board, Church of the Brethren, with general offices at Elgin, Ill.

My commission and board have requested me to offer before this mportant committee hearing testimony favorable to the proposed Peace Corps Act as contained in bill S. 2000. The committee may be interested to know also that I have been actively participating in other groups related to the proposed Peace Corps, such as International Voluntary Services, Inc., the Committee on Overseas Service by Youth of the National Council of Churches, and the Committee on Peace Corps of the American Council of Voluntary Agencies for Foreign Service, Inc. However, today I speak officially only for the Brethren Service Commission, General Brotherhood Board, Church of the Brethren.

AGREEMENT WITH PEACE CORPS PURPOSES

As a church and people, we are in strong agreement with the declared purposes of the Peace Corps. As we understand the Peace Corps Act, the overall purpose is "to promote world peace and friendship." The inclusive and more specific purposes are

(1) to assist countries desiring such in their manpower needs for trained and for semiskilled services for the common good;

(2) to provide our Nation's youth and older persons increased opportunities for constructive, humanitarian services overseas; and

(3) to promote better understanding mutually between the American people and other peoples around the world. These high and important objectives conform to the best we know and desire for ourselves and the peoples of all other lands. Certainly the American people, individually and collectively, and our unique array of voluntary groups across the land can do no other than give hearty and sustained support to these Peace Corps Act objectives because they are in harmony with our American heritage and consistent with our great historic documents and declared goals.

INNOVATIONS OF THE PEACE CORPS

It has been mentioned frequently in these days that there is little new in the Peace Corps. In one sense that is true. Voluntary and private agencies, including church and educational efforts overseas long have been engaged in leadership training and community development in almost every country of the world. And our Government, especially through its foreign aid and predecessor programs, for decades now has been carrying forward extensive and significant programs in the categories roughly analogous to the proposed Peace Corps types of activities. So in this sense, the Peace Corps is nothing new. But in another and tremendously important sense, the Peace Corps is new; almost breath-takingly so. This is the first time that Government has undertaken to map out and undergird a total national community effort in this direction. And it is the first time that this great idea has so caught the imagination of our people from every walk of life.

ENACTMENT OF S. 2000 URGED

Therefore, we in the Church of the Brethren Service applaud and pledge every possible support to the declared purposes of the Peace

Corps. As far as we understand them, we find ourselves in accord generally with the detailed provisions of the Peace Corps Act which is before this committee. We would like to see it enacted by the Congress essentially in its present form.

At this point in our testimony, we would like permission to file with the committee "A Statement on the Youth Corps by the Brethren Service Commission, Elgin, Ill.," revised February 22, 1961. This statement sets forth the basic convictions of our group on major aspects of the Peace Corps and attempts to define the mood and conditions for its effective implementation.

Senator SPARKMAN. That statement will be received for printing. (The statement referred to follows:)

A STATEMENT ON THE PEACE YOUTH CORPS, BY THE BRETHREN SERVICE COMMISSION, ELGIN, ILL.

The Brethren Service Commission enthusiastically commends the Congress and the administration for the studies underway to establish a Peace Youth Corps for service abroad. We feel the general concept of the Corps is sound, especially in helping meet the felt needs in the less-developed areas of the world, in creatively using the mounting interest of American youth in constructive service overseas, and in enhancing the sensitivity of Americans to the problems of the world community.

The long-time conviction of the Brethren Service Commission, confirmed by 20 years of experience in utilizing the voluntary services of youth in oversea projects, has been that a corps of carefully selected and properly oriented American youth could render a most significant and needed service abroad. Particularly in the developing programs of health, education, agriculture, and small industries at the village level, such youth could provide the "missing link" between highly specialized technical knowledge and the need for bringing this know-how into actual practice by villagers. Moreover, these youth could become the most effective carriers of our best American image abroad.

Without attempting a definitive, comprehensively structured proposal, our interest and experience leads us to suggest the following considerations:

1. GENERAL POINT OF VIEW

The Peace Youth Corps should be guided by the spirit of mutuality rather than the spirit of assistance. Superiority and condescension must be avoided. The program should reflect the attitude that America has much to learn from contacts with other people. A growing understanding among Americans of the problems of the world community would increase America's effectiveness as she participates in mankind's efforts toward peace with justice.

The Peace Youth Corps should be noncreedal and devoid of dogma whether it be religious, economic, political, or technological. The character of the youth involved is of more importance even than technical training, for the sharing of life is of more significance than the offering of material or ideological advances. Emphasis in the selection of corpsmen should be placed on sensitivity and human relations skills because the program will succeed in terms of the mutual trust and respect found in the human relationships established at the grassroots level.

In the more primitive and needy situations, often the immediate need for highly specialized knowledge and precise technical skills is not great. To work among those with no pure water supply, a degree as a plumbing engineer is often more training than can be utilized properly. A graduate agriculturist has training and methods which may be beyond the realistic "next steps" in the development of people who till the soil with hand-forged hoes. Instead, a corpsman with adequate farm background and sufficient creativity to help plan and direct the next steps will be of immense help in such a situation, providing he has sensitivity for the people and a willingness to share in their experience and to earn the right to add to their experiences from his own. Whatever expert knowledge he or his village associates require can be secured through specialists in the country or from specialized international agencies.