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Senator GORE. Thank you, Doctor.
Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
Senator SPARKMAN (presiding). Senator Symington.

INITIATIVE FOR CHURCH-PEACE CORPS DISCUSSIONS

Senator SYMINGTON. Dr. Van Deusen, has anybody from the Peace Corps solicited your church to enter into this program?

Reverend VAN DEUSEN. Our church took the initiative in making contact with the Peace Corps, and we have had some very fine, long, and thorough discussions with them on these various aspects.

We have already a friendly and cordial relationship with the Peace Corps staff.

Senator SYMINGTON. Then the point of my question is more clear: If you took the initiative, was it initiative to do something you did not approve?

Reverend Van DEUSEN. No; it was an exploratory initiative to see what the facts were, and to use as the basis for our later decision.

Senator SYMINGTON. As I understand it, the Peace Corps has not in any way solicited, let alone pressured, any religious groups. They have waited until the group came to them; is that your understanding of it?

Reverend Van DEUSEN. That is my understanding, yes. I think they have welcomed approaches of this kind because they, too, want to explore the pros and cons, the difficulties and the advantages of such cooperation, and we found them to be sincerely concerned, as we were, that the thing would be done, if at all, on a basis which could be mutually approved.

Senator SYMINGTON. But you went to them; they did not go to you? Reverend Van DEUSEN. That is correct.

Senator SYMINGTON. Do you know of any case where they have approached any religious groups ?

Reverend VĂN DEUSEN. No, I do not. I am not fully aware of their procedures.

My impression is that they have approached no one, that the initiative was from the opposite direction.

Senator SYMINGTON. That is my understanding. I just wanted this for the record. They have only listened to people who have come to them.

Reverend VAN DEUSEN. I think that is probably the case.
Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator SPARKMAN. Thank you very much, Doctor.
Mr. Heinz Rollman, of Waynesville, N.C.

Will you come around! We are glad to have you. We have your statement which will be printed in full in the record. If you desire to summarize it, you may do so. Proceed as you wish.

STATEMENT OF HEINZ ROLLMAN, WAYNESVILLE, N.C.

Mr. ROLLMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My assistant is with me today here, and I want to thank you for giving me the privilege to appear before this committee.

I will not read my speech. It is too long, and after having waited for 22 years to appear before this committee, I think I would be too excited to be able to read any language today.

It could truly only happen in America that a man who came here penniless and without friends 22 years ago is privileged to try to make a contribution to his country.

A PEACE ARMY TO SERVE ABROAD

I, naturally, being the father of the Peace Corps idea, I am much in love with the idea. I am happy that the Government is considering this measure. However, I must say I believe the way it is proposed it will, in all probability, do far more harm than the good that it will do.

In my book, “World Construction,” which has been published 10 years ago, I proposed a peace army of 5 million capable, dedicated, American people to go all over the world to teach the rest of the world how to put on diapers, how to build dams, and how to practice democracy.

I do not think that can be done by young boys and girls. I think it will take retired people who have the peace of mind. I think we have to fight for peace in the same way that we fight for war.

We can win every war where a real effort is being made. Some college boys and some college girls, with inadequate experience, who are not yet mature enough, cannot possibly win the peace. The peace of this world can only be won if the U.S. Government puts everything behind peace as we do behind war.

TEACHING A LEARNER'S ARMY HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS

I have also proposed in this book that we train in this country here, year after year,

for as long as it would be necessary, a peace army, a learner's army, consisting of 5 million men and women from the far corners of the world, to teach them here how democracy works.

All of that naturally is subject to one thing: If we believe that peace is more secure on a full stomach, that peace is more secure for healthy people than for sick people, if we believe peace is more secure under our way of democracy than under any other kind of government, then I believe, if that is the answer, we can certainly win peace by teaching the rest of the world with their own hands, but with our skills and as teachers, to help themselves, to raise their standard of living.

SACRIFICES DEMANDED OF PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES

I believe there will be enormous sacrifices asked of our Nation, of each and every one of us. It is well possible that in order to win the peace, we might pay twice as much in taxes as we do today. It is very well possible that we will be called upon to make sacrifices as we have never dreamed would be possible.

On the other hand, I have seen from my own experience that people behind barbed wire care very, very little as to the rate of income tax. I believe that only building missiles alone cannot win peace, although it might prevent us losing a war or being destroyed as a nation.

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But the real effort is that we take the initiative. We know in our heart, at least I do, that Khrushchev's grandchildren, if we try hard enough, will become millionaires by having hamburger stands all the way from Moscow to Vladivostock.

NEED FOR A WORLD BILL OF RIGHTS

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I believe if we could change this wonderful document, the Constitution of this country, to make it a world constitution, that if we have a world bill of rights, that if we have a world bill of obligations, this is something that the rest of humanity will understand.

Senator GORE. May I ask you how this world bill of rights would be assured to all humanity?

Mr. ROLLMAN. We can only have in the long run, peace, at least among the non-Communist or nonoccupied nations, if we have an international police force.

The only reason that I keep halfway with the speed limit, and so does every other American, is being scared of getting too many tickets.

No law will help us unless we have the force to enforce the law, the international force to do it, and the same would be true with the bill of rights. Unless there is an international police force, nothing could be enforced.

Senator GORE. Thank you.
Senator SPARKMAN. Go right ahead, sir.

DANGER OF WAR TODAY

Mr. ROLLMAN. Sir, I believe that the actual danger of war today is not that Russia will start a war against the free world. I believe there is a tremendous danger, and I have traveled for 30 years all over the world, and have started my own factory in 72 countries. I believe the terrible danger today is that China, together with all the other colored races in this world, once they control and know how to build the neutron or more terrible bombs yet, will certainly try in their hunger for revenge for what they think the white man has done to the colored races for hundreds of years, that they very well might start a war.

I think there is also danger of too many people in our country becoming frustrated and saying, "Why don't we show these so-and-so's how far they can push us?”

Obviously it is very easy for us to do away with communism by dropping a sufficient amount of bombs on them. However, that is not the way that this country has ever acted before. But more and more people think, "Well, it is an easy sacrifice. I pay for a few months more taxes; I don't have to change anything in my life; let's get it over with."

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SHARING OUR KNOW-HOW WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD

I do not think we will get it over with unless we share with the rest of the world our know-how.

I am not in favor of sharing necessarily all of our money, but I believe if we share our know-how, if we teach the rest of the world how to achieve this unbelievable standard of living, this kind of freedom, then I think we will be certain that Khrushchev's grandchildren will become millionaires by selling hamburgers and frankfurters and also maybe Coca-Cola.

These are, I believe, two important things today: Missiles which might take $100 billion a year, for we do not know if there is still time for the white race in this world left somehow to show the colored races that we do not wish to exploit them, that we want them to live like human beings. This, however, is a danger, but we have to be armed, naturally, right up to the teeth.

That, in conclusion, sir, is the statement I wanted to make, and I will be glad to answer any questions.

Thank you.

(The prepared statement of Mr. Rollman follows:)

STATEMENT OF HEINZ ROLLMAN, WAYNESVILLE, N.C.

"MAKE ONE LAST WISH"

I want to thank you for the great privilege of letting me come before you and testify about what I think a Peace Corps can do for this country and the world, and with your kind permission I would like to say it can truly only happen in America, where I arrived 22 years ago penniless as a refugee from Hitler's Germany, that I now have the privilege to appear become a committee of the most powerful and greatest lawmaking body in the free world. Please do not mind my saying so at this particular time-peace on earth does not depend upon the President of the United States nor on Khrushchev in Moscow nor Mao in Peiping; peace on earth does not even depend on the American or Russian people. Peace on earth today depends only on whether a majority of the Members of Congress will pass legislation that without a shadow of a doubt can assure the survival of the free world and the gradual downfall of communism.

These are not idle words. They are based on what I have learned and applied in the last 30 years by living under communism and nazism, by knowing democracy and the power of the legislative branch of Congress. I may be wrong, and you may disagree with me, but if I am wrong, it is not malice or bad will-it is that I love this country which has been so good to me, that I believe in democracy if practiced the right way and I do not underestimate a capable, forward-looking Congress of which the world is in such dire need.

As all human beings, we feel safe mostly when conditions do not change too abruptly. Throughout our history we, as a nation, have been able to create a better life for ourselves by gradual evolution, not by abrupt revolution. We are used to this way of life. We got into this groove, but we must be careful that this groove does not turn out one day to be our grave.

No one was forced to shoot his horse and buy the horseless carriage. No law was passed requiring people to have a TV set in every bathroom, or to get a penicillin shot every 6 months. For some things in our lives and the lives of all human beings, indeed, evolution won't do any more. This witness believes that if we don't undergo a complete revolution in our way of life and in our approach, that then democracy might well vanish from the face of the earth for a long, long time. We cannot continue to live just as a nation, just as we have discontinued to live as an island when we found out that communism had every intention to fight for its survival and fight to become a world power.

Ever since 1918 we have not lived any more by George Washington's admonition to stay away from foreign entanglements; we have been participants in three world wars, and we have given to our neighbors, wherever they may live, more than $100 billion, more than 1 million American lives, and untold billions in war materials. We are up to our necks in this world today.

It is this witness' feeling that only a very small percentage of people in our land know why that is so. But in the last 43 years things have still only changed gradually, except for those who died a premature death in unneeded wars They have not made this world a better place in which to live--they have, indeed, died in vain.

There has not been a grand design for putting communism out of business and for enabling all human beings to go to bed every night with a full stomach and live in a democracy the way we know it. There are two opposite roads open to us. The one is to tell the rest of the world to take care of their own problems as best they can, and run the risk of seeing communism spread to every nation on earth except, and we would hope, to our own. We don't need any foreign bases. W don't need battleships. We can hermetically seal ourselves off from the rest of the world, and have 100,000 anti-missile-missile installations to shoot down Communist missiles, whether they are fired from Cuba, Red China, or Russia. If this is the way we want to live, let's make it clear to the world, and let us stop talking about brotherly love, understanding, obligations, and the enlightened age we live in. If we don't want to live that way, however, then we have to make our intentions equally clear to the rest of the world, and have to go whole hog the other way. There is, unfortunately, no middle ground left on which to walk.

If we want to avoid the continued rise of communism, we have to broaden the first document by which this Nation started to live the Constitution of the United States. This Constitution only concerns itself with our country and ourselves, and so does the Bill of Rights. We need a Constitution with all the unbelievably wonderful features of our present Constitution, but we have to enlarge it to a world constitution which will explain to the rest of humanity our basic philosophy of how we want to live in the world we live in. Our Bill of Rights has to encompass all of humanity whether still free or already slave. Some might say it will be of little value to the rest of the world to change the words of these two documents, but that is not so. Look what the words in these two documents have meant to the people in this Nation; look what they have meant to people in foreign lands and what they would have meant by today to all the world if communism and its foul gospel would not have appeared out of nowhere. We must make it clear in this new world constitution and in this world bill of rights that it is our goal for all human beings, practicing their own customs and religions, to enjoy freedom from hunger, freedom from disease, freedom from pestilence, freedom from dictatorships, freedom from terror, freedom for private individuals to embark on industrial and commercial projects, the way we have learned to do it here, and other freedoms destined to advance the welfare of humanity while, at the same time, enabling the doers to increase their bank accounts. It is, after all, not "blowing our own horn" that we can compare ourselves most favorably with any nation on earth. What helpeth it a man if he can read and starves; what helpeth it a women if she can eat but cannot read. Through a rare combination of utterly dissatisfied people who were the first settlers of this land, plus the foresight of the people who gave us our Constitution, plus the fact that people, wherever they came from, usually had to start from scratch, we have achieved what no other nation has ever achieved before. These circumstances have never all come together at the same time for any other country and, therefore, it is doubtful if any nation on earth can ever accomplish the same as we have. For other nations to accomplish the overabundance of goods, the overabundance of freedom. and the overabundance of opportunity, we must help them to do what came accidentally here.

We must not only give equal rights to all citizens of our own country; we must, indeed, extend the freedom to become Americans to any human being, anywhere on earth, whether he lives on our continent or somewhere else.

We must do away with many of the rights of the States. To give just one example, who are we to preach to this world the brotherhood of man and unity of purpose if we have different speed laws and different beverage laws within a few feet crossing from one State to another? The citizens of our country with lower incomes, as time goes on, at least for some time, will have to pay more taxes than we dreamed of being possible now. If this need be, one can go along with it, if we know that not a penny of these taxes is wasted for unneeded public payroll featherbedding, pork-barrel legislation, or other items that will destroy the confidence that we, as people, should have in democracy. That the taxpayers in the final analysis in thousands of little villages throughout the land have to pay the salaries for two mayors or two chiefs of police just simply to keep enough people on the public payroll are things that border on criminal insanity. Every. thing that will promote our own welfare, our own security, the welfare of the free world, the downfall of communism, and the security of the free world

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