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Government paid the tariff and sold it to private industry without taking into account the cost of the tariff.

Mr. WORMSER. I am not familiar with that.

Senator MALONE. Do you agree with that sort of an operation?
Mr. WORMSER. I do not like it, sir.

Senator MALONE. I will read you a list of materials. I am unable to give you the amounts. Stockpile withdrawals and diversions; aluminum, copper, cryolite, lead, rutile, tungsten, zinc. Does that answer your question as to whether or not it can be done?

Mr. WORMSER. Were those withdrawals made while we were fighting Korea, or were they made in the last few days, or just when were they made? I do not know the circumstances.

Senator MALONE. They can be made by Executive order and the Congress has no control over such a withdrawal.

Mr. WORMSER. Under war conditions?

Senator MALONE. Under any conditions. In anything the Executive may call an emergency.

Mr. WORMSER. I do not consider myself legally competent to decide when and where the stockpile

Senator MALONE. Under any condition that the President of the United States might consider an emergency, whatever the emergency may be. Then he writes a letter and the material can come out of the stockpile, and break the market.

Mr. WORMSER. That is the weakness of any efforts to stabilize the market through any means, whether it is military stock or buffer stock.

Senator MALONE. Is it not the fundamental weakness of any stockpile program left to the whim of an executive officer?

Mr. WORMSER. Precisely; the human equation and human judgment comes in there, with endeavors to usurp the functions of a free market, almost invariably unsuccessfully.

Senator MALONE. Mr. Secretary, we appreciate very much having you here. As you have been in office only 9 or 10 months I appreciate your reluctance to testify to anything which has not been determined to be the policy of the new administration. As you say, many of these problems are currently being studied.

Mr. WORMSER. They are being forged currently. It would be rather premature to make any declaration.

Senator MALONE. But you also appreciate the position of this committee which has been directed by the United States Senate to secure certain information.

Mr. WORMSER. Therefore we would like to give you every assistance possible from our Department.

Senator MALONE. I think you have today. We would like very much to have you and Secretary McKay appear before the committee again. Perhaps next month will be an appropriate time.

Mr. WORMSER. I shall be delighted to, because I think at that time we shall have more to offer.

Senator MALONE. We thank you very kindly.

Mr. WORMSER. Thank you, sir.

Senator MALONE. Tomorrow at 9:30 we will hear the experts in the various mineral fields from the Bureau of Mines. They have helped prepare the factual material for the committee. I hope you will all be here. If there is any reason why any of you could not be here or if it would be inconvenient-I am sure we cannot hear all of you in the morning-please get in touch with our counsel and we will be very happy to arrange a schedule to suit your convenience.

(Thereupon, at 4:35 p. m., a recess was taken until Wednesday, October 21, 1953, at 9:30 a. m.)

STOCKPILE AND ACCESSIBILITY OF STRATEGIC AND CRITICAL MATERIALS TO THE UNITED STATES IN TIME OF WAR

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 1953

UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON
MINERALS, MATERIALS, AND FUEL ECONOMICS,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 9:30 a. m., in the committee room, 224 Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C., Senator George W. Malone, Nevada (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Senator George W. Malone, Nevada (chairman of the subcommittee).

Present also: Jerome S. Adlerman, counsel to the subcommittee; George B. Holderer, committee engineer.

Senator MALONE. The committee will be in order.

The committee appreciates very much the sacrifice in time that I know you are all making to be here, and that you have made prior to this time in the preparation of the charts and texts on the individual minerals and materials which already have been furnished the committee.

Mr. Tom Miller, will you come forward. Is Mr. Forbes here?

STATEMENT OF THOMAS H. MILLER, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF MINES, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, the Director is out of the city and will not be back until the end of the week.

Senator MALONE. You are the Assistant Director?

Mr. MILLER. I am the Assistant Director of the Bureau of Mines; yes, sir.

Senator MALONE. Will you express to the Director, Mr. Forbes, the committee's appreciation of the assistance and cooperation that we have had from the Bureau of Mines? I am now expressing that appreciation to you. We will try to hear from Mr. Forbes later at his convenience.

Our procedure, as you noticed yesterday, was to start at the top and go right down through your organization to the individuals who are actually doing the basic and detailed work for you. I knew that was your wish.

Mr. MILLER. That is correct. I am sure if the Director were here, he would repeat the statements that both the Secretary and Assistant

Secretary made yesterday, and I am sure he would want me to repeat them in his absence: That the full facilities of the Bureau of Mines are available to this committee to whatever extent you need them in order to get the information together that the committee needs.

Senator MALONE. You have already shown that cooperation, which has been very much appreciated.

Now, Mr. Miller, if you have any general statement you would like to make about the work of the Bureau, the committee will appre ciate receiving it at this time. Following the testimony of the individual engineers who are actually working under you and have done the detailed work, perhaps you would like to make a summationeither you or Mr. Forbes, or both of you.

Mr. MILLER. I would like to do that, if you wish, Mr. Chairman. Senator MALONE. You may make any statement you desire to make. Mr. MILLER. I have no general statement to make at this time. As you know, there have been a number of consultations between the staff of this committee and the Bureau in preparing the types of information that were needed. Much of that falls in the minerals field under the general supervision of Mr. Zinner. Mr. Zinner is here this morning with most of his branch chiefs, and they are prepared to introduce the material which has been prepared for this committee. If it is agreeable with you, we are prepared to start our presentation at the convenience of the committee.

Senator MALONE. Mr. Miller, I personally have been acquainted with your work for a considerable period of time. It is hardly neces sary to say that in my opinion the Bureau of Mines has done the outstanding work in this field which has been done by any Government department. There have, of course, been times when there have been special committees and special commissions appointed to do a particular job, but your department was the source of the information. Mr. MILLER. We certainly appreciated your support, Senator. Our interest in this field is, of course, very extensive. Our limitations are not in our interest but in our ability to secure sufficient funds to do more. We can do more if we had more money. It is the usual situation that Government agencies find themselves in, in not being able to do all of the things they would like to do, particularly in the analysis of the basic data which we do collect.

Senator MALONE. If I might say at this time, Mr. Miller-and I am counting on a couple of your outstanding men to give us the benefit of their experience and advice-Mr. Oliver Ralston and Mr. Elmer Person-you were here yesterday and heard the instructions that the Senate gave this committee. The committee is to determine. the accessibility and availability of the strategic and critical minerals, materials, and fuels to the United States in time of war, for the expanding economy, and for its security.

Based on long experience with your Bureau, it is my opinion that the new material called titanium was a result of the activities of your Bureau. In our Henderson hearing we heard three of your people who are authorities in the field. Apparently considerable work re mains to be done on that material, but as a result of your work there is new tremendous interest in titanium. There may be a hearing set on the west coast to hear what the airplane manufacturers actually believe the demand for titanium would be if it were available. Mr. MILLER. Yes, sir.

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