be given immediate attention since the program will be delayed 1 year unless the following actions are taken before about October 1.

(1) Authorization must be secured to plant additional acreage. There is a question as to whether or not existing legislation would prevent the planting of more than 75,000 acres of guayule. This restriction, if it exists, must be removed very promptly if the program is to go forward on a really significant scale.

(2) The second item is the procurement from the War Production Board of adequate priorities to secure the amount of farm equipment which would be required to prepare the land and plant the seeds. This, again, must be done very promptly to meet the fall planting season.

There are additional requirements for the success of the program which are sought by the Department of Agriculture and to which the Committee gives its support.

Cryptostega is second in importance among rubber-producing plants capable of substantial scale production in the United States. This vine will grow wild in Florida and other Southern States. It contains only 2 or 3 percent of rubber, but this is of high grade and can be secured from the leaves harvested each year from the perennial vines. A plan to plant these vines extensively this year has met with relatively small success, owing to a delay in securing authorization for the gathering and purchase of cryptostega seeds from wild growing vines in Mexico. This authorization was another instance of "too late," and was secured just after the seeds had scattered. There is little to be lost and much might be gained by pursuing this program vigorously when the next opportunity arises next year The CHAIRMAN. I notice that the Baruch committee recommendsThat this program be given every possible support as the principal source of crude rubber which could not be lost to us short of conquest of American territory. This report makes certain specific recommendations. I notice that the report states that "Certain things must be given immediate attention since the program will be delayed 1 year unless" certain actions are taken before about October 1, to increase the authorized acreage provided for in the act of March 5, 1942, above the 75,000 acres permitted by the act; and, second, to obtain from the War Production Board the essential priorities for farm machinery and equipment to prepare the land and plant seeds.

A Senate bill, which passed the Senate on the 21st of this month, raised that acreage from 75,000 to not to exceed 500,000 acres. wonder what steps have been taken in the House in connection with that matter?

Mr. GRANGER. I think the situation in the House, Mr. Chairman, is that the author of the bill in the House deferred pressure for its consideration until the Senate bill was passed because certain amendments which we desired were incorporated in the Senate bill, and the Department is about to make a report recommending in effect that the Senate bill be agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN. You think the House committee is favorable? Mr. GRANGER. I could not say, but judging by their previous action, I presume they are.

The CHAIRMAN. What action have you taken with reference to the second recommendation of the Baruch committee?

Mr. GRANGER. The War Production Board yesterday granted us a very high priority in connection with the entire project. I think we will get through nicely, although if we have to have higher priorities on certain items we expect to get them.

The CHAIRMAN. When we had this matter before us previously there was considerable discussion as to the cost of production.

In the short time you have had to work since our first hearing on the subject, has there been any change in the figures you gave us as to the cost of production?

Mr. GRANGER. I can only discuss the probable cost of rubber per pound in general terms, because our experience does not give us precise information, but it is safe to say that the estimates made by the company on which the earlier discussion of this project centered will be found to be considerably too low per pound.

The CHAIRMAN. It will be more espensive than you expected to find it?

Mr. GRANGER. We expect so. That is due to several factors, such as the fact that the material costs and the labor costs have risen, and the land rental will cost considerably more than before. That will cause a substantial increase.

The CHAIRMAN. You say there will be a substantial increase.

Mr. GRANGER. Yes. It may be even double the estimates of 20 to 22 cents a pound.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be expensive rubber.

Mr. GRANGER. It will be. But of course, if we were able to rely on getting rubber from the East Indies it would be foolish to go into this program except to have an insurance provision, and as I understand it that is one of the reasons why the Baruch committee recommended it.

The CHAIRMAN. What quantities do you expect to produce?

Mr. GRANGER. Our estimate is that under this expanded program, which would increase the size of the project

The CHAIRMAN. What did you expect to produce under the original program?

Mr. GRANGER. Under the existing program we are going very largely to irrigated land, which we think will increase the rubber production at the end of the second year, very substantially over what we had previously estimated to be produced on nonirrigated land. Based on the best estimates we can make, on laboratory data, we would expect to get in the harvest beginning in the fall of 1944 and running into 1945, a little over 13,000 tons of rubber from the present program.

The CHAIRMAN. How does that compare with the figure you gave originally?

Mr. GRANGER. We had not figured on harvesting the shrub at the end of 2 years in the original plan; we hoped or expected to get from 1,200 to 1,600 pounds per acre at the end of 4 years as contrasted with a little over 800 pounds in 2 years in the field.

The CHAIRMAN. I see that the Baruch report has this to say on page 40 of House Document No. 836:

The plans call for planting an acreage increasing to about 180,000 acres by the end of 1944. If this program is carried through, it is anticipated by the Department that there will be crude rubber available from this domestic guayule rising from 600 short tons in 1942 to about 33,000 in the fall of 1944, about 47,000 tons in the fall of 1945, and increasing thereafter.

The report makes this very unhappy comment:

The committee believes that these estimates are overoptimistic but that the project is inherently sound and should be supported.

To what extent do you consider that those figures are overoptimistic?

Mr. GRANGER. We have not considered the figures overoptimistic if the result which we hope to get from what we call the laboratory

basis can be obtained in commercial plantings. We told the Baruch committee and everybody else that this is speculative. We might only get half of what we estimated, or only two-thirds, and they have apparently formed their own conclusion that our estimates are probably too liberal.

ESTIMATED PRODUCTION OF RUBBER UNDER PRESENT AND ENLARGED PROGRAM

The CHAIRMAN. What is your program now, with this 500,000 acres? What do you expect in the way of production in the immediate future, the next 2 or 3 years?

Mr. GRANGER. Beginning in the fall of 1944, with this expanded program, instead of getting 13,000 tons we should get 33,000 tons. The CHAIRMAN. To what extent can we rely on that?

Mr. GRANGER. I could not say you can rely on it; that is our reasonable expectation, based on the data we have. It would not surprise me if it fell off one-third, and it would not shock me if it fell off one-half. There are many uncertainties in this. It is being presented as the best known possibility in the domestic rubber field.

Mr. TABER. Did I understand you to say that this amount of 33,000 tons in the fall of 1944 would only come with the additional acreage, on the basis of 500,000 acres.

Mr. GRANGER. It would come only with the expanded program. I think I might explain about the 500,000 acres. There are a good many figures in this presentation and it may be confusing. We had to adopt some basis for the outline of the project to the Baruch committee, so we proceeded on the basis that we would plant all the seed now available and stop right there, if that were determined to be the best thing.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you expect to get the 33,000 tons with the $19,000,000, or will it require additional funds?

Mr. GRANGER. It will require more money after this fiscal year. The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Mr. GRANGER. It will take about $100,000,000 more to plant all of the stock which will result from this seed and to put up the necessary factories and get the rubber out of the shrubs.

The CHAIRMAN. How much acreage will you plant with the $19,000,000?

Mr. GRANGER. We hope to plant 88,000 acres in the fiscal year 1943.

The CHAIRMAN. How many acres have you secured with the money already appropriated?

Mr. GRANGER. We have not yet got into the big planting program; we plan to plant 32,000 acres.

The CHAIRMAN. That will make a total acreage of how much? Mr. GRANGER. We will plant 56,000 more in this fiscal year, which will bring us up to a total in the fiscal year 1943 of 88,000 acres.

EXPERIMENTAL WORK WITH RUSSIAN DANDELION, RABBIT-BRUSH AND GOLDENROD

The CHAIRMAN. You have been carrying on experimental work with a Russian dandelion. What is that called?

Mr. GRANGER. That is the Kok-sagyz.

The CHAIRMAN. What results are you getting on rubber production from goldenrod and rabbitbrush?

Mr. GRANGER. As to rabbitbrush, the Bureau of Agricultural Chemistry and Engineering has been studying the possibility of getting rubber out of rabbitbrush, and I understand that they have gone far enough so that they are very doubtful whether rubber can be successfully produced on a commercial scale from rabbitbrush, except possibly from one strain that grows to an especially large size, and all indications so far are on the negative side.

The CHAIRMEN. What about goldenrod as a source of rubber? Mr. GRANGER. Goldenrod is quite promising, if we can develop a process for getting rubber out of it, for the production of a rather low grade of rubber. The Navy informs us that they can use vast quantities of a type of rubber for various purposes, which, apparently, would be the type of rubber that would be gotten out of goldenrod. The CHAIRMAN. Do you expect to continue with your work on goldenrod?

Mr. GRANGER. We expect to continue our work with goldenrod, and may come before the committee with a proposal to plant 15,000 acres in goldenrod.

The CHAIRMAN. How about the other rubber-producing plants? Mr. GRANGER. Cryptostegia is a rubber-producing plant that is under study by the Bureau of Agricultural Chemistry and Engineering with a view to developing an extractive process. That has not yet been developed. The Cryptostegia plant is under study in an intensive way, and there is a good deal of confidence that a suitable extractive process can be developed. It is believed, however, from the standpoint of growing the plant in the United States that there are very few localities in this country where it can be successfully grown. The climatic requirements are much more rigid for the Cryptostegia plant shan for the guayule plant. However, there are probably quite large areas in the western hemisphere, including Mexico, Puerto Rico, and elsewhere where the Cryptostegia can be successfully produced, and I believe the Board of Economic Warfare is interested in that program. The CHAIRMAN. If we are to get practical results, you think we must pin our faith to the guayule plant?

Mr. GRANGER. So far as the United States is concerned, very largely so; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In the development of natural-rubber production, what relation does your Department have to the synthetic rubber program?

Mr. GRANGER. In connection with the guayule program, some natural rubber appears to be absolutely essential to be mixed with synthetic rubber for use in the manufacture of the larger tires and from other purposes for which some proportion of natural rubber must be used. Therefore, it is regarded as indispensable to have some guaranteed source of natural rubber until such time as the experts are able to adapt synthetic rubber to all of those uses in this country. That is something that Germany and Russia have undertaken to do, but have not been able to do it up to this time. Whether we shall be able to adapt pure synthetic rubber to all those uses is not now predictable.

BENEFIT OF RUBBER PROJECT TO AGRICULTURE GENERALLY

The CHAIRMAN. If your estimates will permit you to proceed on the basis of 75,000 acres, or with the plantations as originally authorized, and if the basic law is not changed, what recommendation do you have with respect to acreage for this project?

Mr. GRANGER. When I was before the Senate committee, the question was raised as to whether the acreage limitation should be removed entirely, or whether there should be a new acreage figure. We agreed to the 500,000-acre figure as a ceiling under which we can operate comfortably for some time in the future. If it were decided that we should go into the project on a more or less permanent basis, for the production of approximately 80,000 tons of rubber a year, then we would want approximately 500,000 acres of land to be kept in use all the time for the purpose. We would be establishing plantations occupying about 185,000 acres of land in each of the 2 years, making a total of twice that acreage. Then, because of the fact that you cannot take the shrubs out of the first year's plantation and resow it at the same time, we must have additional acreage to allow for the overlapping.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe the basic law is not changed, but you are recommending the planting of more than 75,000 acres. Mr. GRANGFR. Yes, sir.

Mr. O'NEAL. Assuming that this experiment-and I think you still call it an experiment--is successful, and you establish the fact that rubber from cultivated plants can be produced in this country in appreciable quantities, have you considered the possibilities, or have you taken a long-range view of the possibilities of the cultivation of these plants in relation to individual farmers, or have you considered these plants as something the individual farmers might grow? In other words, is there any possibility of this being of benefit to the whole agricultural situation in this country, from the point of view of a longrange program of production?

Mr. GRANGER. The areas where these plants are grown

Mr. O'NEAL (interposing). Do you feel there is a possibility that in the future this might be of help to agriculture in this country by providing another profitable crop for individual farmers?

Mr. GRANGER. I think it might provide quite a possibility of production for farmers in the areas where these plants are grown.

Mr. O'NEAL. Do you think that an operation of this kind is one that can be handled by individual farmers, with the Government directing it or furnishing the stock?

Mr. GRANGER. A considerable part of the program could very well be handled by the farmer. The raising of the stock in the nurseries might have to be a Government project, or a cooperative project on the part of groups of farmers. The supervision of the specialized methods of planting the stock in the field might have to be handled by the Government, as well as the machinery used for the extraction of the rubber.

Mr. O'NEAL. So that, in addition to the benefits that will flow from the project for war purposes, it might in the long run represent money well spent from the standpoint of agriculture generally, or from the standpoint of the individual farmer.

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