acquire, just as they acquired the Gadsden Purchase, all claims by Mexico to Colorado River waters. When it became apparent to the United States that the original boundary line under the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which was the Gila River, was very detrimental to the United States of America; that it would have required any railroad building between the East and the West across that country either to go through Mexico or to go across the very mountainous country north of the Gila River, a commission was appointed and the United States and Mexico agreed on an amount which was to be paid Mexico for what is now known as the Gadsden Purchase, which takes in the entire triangle of land stretching off below Yuma in a southeasterly direction, which gave the United States the territory where Yuma is now located, where Tucson is now located and, I believe, Bisbee and Douglas.

Senator ASHURST. All south of the Gila River would have been in Mexico had it not been for the Gadsden Purchase.

Mr. MAXWELL. The Senator is quite right.

Now, gentlemen, the position we take is this. It is two-fold. In the first place, I want this position understood as being always the position which I represent, that there is not one single thing which is necessary to be considered for the benefit of any American interest now taking part in this controversy over the Colorado River which can not be amicably and satisfactorily adjusted, without any controversy whatever, provided we do not have to give Mexico any more water than they have used up to now. That is all there is to

it.

This [indicating a map on the wall of the committee room] is the best map that I have ever seen of this principality in Mexico for which they are trying to get this Colorado River water. There are the acreages stated there: Over 2,000,000 acres in Mexico, according to that map; the acreage is given there for which they are trying to get the water of the Colorado River.

Now, gentlemen, I have been up against this buzz saw for 18 years, and I can say to you-and I do not want to take up your time by going into details at all-that there is not one single controversy or complication to-day with reference to the Colorado River that can not be traced directly to the claim of the landowners in Mexico that they are entitled to a large proportion of this water, in excess of what they are now using. That has been the controversy for years, and it will continue to be until something definite is done to find out where we stand with reference to Mexico. If the position that I take here today is the correct one, we can settle it if the Mexican claims are eliminated. There is no question about it.

Senator KENDRICK. May I interrupt you there, Mr. Maxwell?
Mr. MAXWELL. Most assuredly.

Senator KENDRICK. Is it not a fact that the direct way to reach that happy situation is by the ratification of this pact between the States, which would enable us to proceed in what we might well term a thoroughly American and neighborly way as among ourselves?

Mr. MAXWELL. Absolutely not, Senator; for the reason that the compact itself, when you apply it to the physical conditions of the Colorado River, gives Mexico water enough for 2,000,000 acres of

land. Under the compact, when it is put into practical operation, Mexico gets the water for 2,000,000 acres of land.

Senator KENDRICK. Is that written into the language of the compact?

Mr. MAXWELL. That is the objection to the compact, Senator, that it results in secretly accomplishing that result, although it is not written into the language of the compact.

Senator KENDRICK. Is that an inference which you draw from it? Mr. MAXWELL. You can not escape the inference, Senator. I have it all set out in this brief which was filed before the Water Power Commission; that point is covered in that brief with the utmost elaboration and in detail. I had not intended to refer to it at this hearing for this reason. I intended to place copies of the brief on the table and ask the Senators to read it and consider it so that I need not take the time to cover that ground in what I have to say here to-day.

Senator KENDRICK. I am following up the chairman's suggestion that he made a minute ago, that we ought to stick to one text. You say it is not written into the compact between the States?

Mr. MAXWELL. Not in terms that a person reading the compact, who is not familiar with the river, would understand.

Senator KENDRICK. Well, would it be possible under the resolutions providing for this compact between the States for them to deal with that question at all?

Mr. MAXWELL. Why, it would be possible for the United States of America to stand on its rights

Senator KENDRICK. Certainly.

Mr. MAXWELL. Let me state my point, please, Senator-but can you ask a sovereign State to absolutely step aside and surrender its rights to the Secretary of the Interior, we will say, or the Secretary of War, or somebody in Washington over whom they have no control? That is asking too much of a sovereign State, Senator.

Senator KENDRICK. If you ask me the question, my idea is that this is a pact for the amicable adjustment between the seven States of the interests that concern those States and those States alone.

Mr. MAXWELL. Let me interpolate right there the exact thing that I said before the committee in the House: That if as a lawyerand Senator Shortridge and Senator Johnson both know I practiced law for quite a long time-I had been employed by the owners of that Mexican principality to draw up a compact which you could put over on the American people but which when understood would give my Mexican clients everything they wanted so that you could not get it away from them, I would have drawn this compact and I could not have done a better job. That is the position you are in. Senator SHORTRIDGE. How many acres south of the line are now irrigated?

Mr. MAXWELL. The largest area that we have an official declaration of among our own reclamation officers is 190,000 acres. But they have under canal, according to this map, 340,000 acres. It is quite strange, Senator, that we can not get any actual facts about anything that is going on in Mexico. I have been told by gentlemen who have been in Mexico within the last six months that they are rushing the construction of canals down there by the hundreds of miles, so as

to enlarge the area that they will claim has been irrigated, by running the flood waters through the canals.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Maxwell, you oppose this compact because, you say, there is a ghost in the language which gives to Mexico enough water to irrigate 2,000,000 acres of land in Mexico?

Mr. MAXWELL. There is no ghost in the language; the language is right there. But the compact does not state the amount of water in the Colorado River, and it does not enable anyone who has no information other than the compact to form any judgment in reference to what the actual effect of the compact is.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, omit the specter which I mentioned. You do oppose this compact?

Mr. MAXWELL. Most assuredly.

The CHAIRMAN. For the reason that somewhere in the language, hidden away, by your interpretation Mexico does receive water sufficient to irrigate 2,000,000 acres of land? Is that correct?

Mr. MAXWELL. Mr. Chairman, I think you and the members of the committee will readily appreciate my difficulty. Before the water-power commission I filed a brief in which that whole subject is elaborately covered, completely covered, and every point brought out and answered.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Maxwell, my question is so simple that I think you ought to answer it. I want to know your position, not a reference to any elaborate argument you may have made heretofore to some society.

Mr. MAXWELL. I should not call the Federal Water Power Commission a society.

The CHAIRMAN. I think I must insist on some kind of answer to my question.

Mr. MAXWELL. I shall be very happy to answer your question. The CHAIRMAN. Well, I have asked you three times, and I will repeat it: You do oppose the compact? I understand you do oppose the compact?

Mr. MAXWELL. I certainly do.

The CHAIRMAN. For the reason that somewhere, impliedly or otherwise, or by written language in the bill, Mexico does receive, in your opinion, water sufficient to irrigate 2,000,000 acres of land in Mexico?

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Mr. Maxwell, may I ask you a question: Taking the compact as it is, having regard to its express terms and bearing in mind that Mexico is not a party to the compact, would there be any right conceded to or conferred upon Mexico by the compact?

Mr. MAXWELL. The point is this, Senator, that if the compact is adopted, then the State of Arizona, which is the only State that I refer to in this part of my discussion, is absolutely deprived of any authority as a sovereign State to protect its interests and defend itself against having its greatest asset taken from it, unless the Secretary of the Interior chooses to give it to them.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I understand your position as to that phase of the compact. But for the moment conceding that you are right, conceding that Arizona is surrendering some of her alleged sovereign power, and that the power to dispose of the waters of that river

and distribute them is vested by this pact in somebody-conceding all that, that does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that Mexico is entitled to water sufficient to irrigate 2,000,000 acres of land. Mr. MAXWELL. Let me make my point, Senator

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Mexico not being a party to the compact, we are not considering her interests without first having regard to our own. What is the logic which leads you to the conclusion which you have indicated?

Mr. MAXWELL. You do not get my point, Senator—

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Manifestly not.

Mr. MAXWELL. No; you do not. Arizona, as a sovereign State, has to-day certain inalienable rights in the Colorado River. Those rights are taken away from her by this compact

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Well, they are not given to Mexico?

Mr. MAXWELL. They are to a very considerable extent given to Mexico, because-I want to make this statement here, Mr. Chairman, and I think I perhaps may have a right to make it

The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to hear you, Mr. Maxwell.

Mr. MAXWELL. That we are being drawn into a subject of discussion which I had not intended even to refer to before this committee, because I understood when this hearing was granted that the subject before the committee was to be the Boulder Canyon Dam, as provided for in the Johnson-Swing bill, or perhaps the Fredericks bill.

Now, on this compact, it is impossible, gentlemen, to properly present that case in reply to a few questions, as is the course adopted here this morning! Before the Water Power Commission I presented a very carefully prepared brief. It took me a whole month to prepare it, and if any member of this committee will read that brief on that subject you will get all the facts. Before the House committee I was given unlimited time, and I answered innumerable questions

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Well, Mr. Maxwell, it may well be that the Socratic method of question and answer does not advance an argument very much, but my experience is that a few direct questions and responsive answers may clear up a subject. Now, what I want to get at is with your permission. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly, Senator Shortridge.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. You have indicated, as I gather from your remarks, that the entering into this compact, plus the building of this dam at Boulder Canyon, would give or concede to Mexico waters sufficient to irrigate 2,000,000 acres of land?

Mr. MAXWELL. Would result practically in giving to MexicoSenator SHORTRIDGE. Well, would result, to use your very words

Mr. MAXWELL. That is right.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. In giving or conceding something to Mexico. Now, frankly, I do not follow that logic. I do not see the sequence of events as, evidently, you do.

Mr. MAXWELL. If you will turn to page 7 of my brief before the Water Power Commission you will find that subject entirely elucidated.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Very well. for your view.

Then I will turn to your brief

Mr. MAXWELL. The point that I want to make clear to-day is that if the compact is adopted Mexico gets the water.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Why does she get it?

Mr. MAXWELL. Because it must go there by the law of gravity. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Suppose it should be diverted and carried through an American canal, or a canal within American territory, and used. There is no underflow there; there is no bed rock which would carry the waters south across our southern line into Mexico, is there?

Mr. MAXWELL. No; but Senator, your premise there is utterly nonexistent.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I said assume; I am assuming the premise. Assuming that all the water of the Colorado River should be used for irrigation or other purposes by citizens of the United States resident within the United States, there would be nothing left, would there?

Mr. MAXWELL. That is quite true.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. There would be no water left to be carried down to irrigate 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 acres.

Mr. MAXWELL. But what is the use of assuming such a thing as that when as a physical fact it is impossible? It is not a question of engineering; it is simply a question of looking at the map.

Senator KENDRICK. Do you contend that in case we proceed now to build the Boulder Canyon Dam that dam would prevent the construction of a dam higher up the river to divert the water there into Arizona?

Mr. MAXWELL. I certainly do, Senator, and I have already explained why that is true. Because a vested right being createdSenator KENDRICK. But in case of any interference by the waters that are backed up

Mr. MAXWELL. You could not build another dam

Senator KENDRICK. Just a moment. This dam as proposed, as I recall, is to be 650 feet in height, and it is said that the water would be backed up the river to a distance of over 100 miles. Would that water interfere in any way with the construction of your dam, or cover the site of your dam where you propose diverting the water?

Mr. MAXWELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is the location on the Colorado River that you propose?

Mr. MAXWELL. There should be a diversion dam built at some point below Diamond Creek, the exact location of which is a matter for engineering study. I am not prepared until that investigation has been made to fix a definite location.

Senator ASHURST. How far would that be above Boulder Canyon? Mr. MAXWELL. I could not say that. About 10 miles below Diamond Creek.

The CHAIRMAN. Where is Diamond Creek with reference to the Grand Canyon?

Mr. MAXWELL (indicating on map). Diamond Creek is right here, and somewhere along in there, there should be a diversion dam. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Is that above or below the Grand Canyon? Mr. MAXWELL. It is in the Grand Canyon.