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The CHAIRMAN. Colonel Fly spoke of your association as a myththe National Reclamation Association. I think it might be well for you to state the character and strength of that association and of what it consists.

Mr. MAXWELL. That matter was gone into very fully in the hearings before the House.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

Mr. MAXWELL. And it would be taking up the time of this committee unnecessarily with what seems to me to be a matter of lesser importance, inasmuch as it was so fully gone into before the House committee. You will find all that very elaborately covered in the report of the hearings before the committee of the House, beginning on page 1285 and running through the entire statement.

You may notice, gentlemen, that the record of my statement before the House committee is almost exclusively a string of questions and answers. I always like to be heard that way, but it takes a great deal of time, and the particular point that I had in mind to emphasize before this committee at the time was not particularly emphasized before the House committee, but it was referred to.

There is one great issue with reference to this matter of the Colorado River that is very seldom referred to, and that is whether the water of the Colorado River shall be used for the development of about 5,000,000 acres of land in Arizona and California, or because both can not be done-used to reclaim and densely populate a principality of close to 2,000,000 acres below the line in Mexico.

I state this additional fact from a personal knowledge of the country from the first day the Imperial Valley was settled by the white man. The Imperial Valley for more than 10 years has been slowly becoming a Japanese or Asiatic country. If the Imperial Valley in Mexico is reclaimed with the waters of the Colorado River, it is absolutely inevitable—there is no power that will ever be brought to bear that will prevent it—that that section of the delta of the Colorado River in Mexico, embracing more than a million acres constituting the Imperial Valley of Mexico, will become densely populated with Asiatics.

An Asiatic can become a Mexican citizen. As such he has all the rights of a Mexican citizen. Every effort that we have made in the United States of America to prevent immigration, to limit land holding, to protect ourselves against the slow and secret increase of this Japanese element in our midst, is wholly inapplicable to the Imperial Valley of Mexico, and a good many things have happened since this matter was before the House committee, Mr. Chairman, which I think are of serious enough portent to give an aspect to the subject that makes it, perhaps, the most potentially important question before the people of the United States to-day.

I know whereof I speak when I talk about the effect of Asiatic infiltration to our country. I grew up in California. I grew up in a valley where the industries were wholly conducted by Chinese cheap labor. Senator Shortridge is as well informed on the evolution of that situation as I am, and Senator Johnson is also as well informed. And the point that I wish to state to this committee to-day—and it was not then so fully matured as to be adequately stated before the House committee is that if the Government of the United States adopts a plan for the utilization of the waters of the Colorado River that will result in the creation of such an Asiatic population as that which will be thereby brought into existence in the Imperial Valley of Mexico, they will create a vastly greater danger than Congress undertook' to legislate against when they passed the recent immigration restriction law, and which the State of California undertook to legislate against when they passed the antialien landholding law.

Senator KENDRICK. Would it interrupt you, Mr. Maxwell, to ask you a question now?

Mr. MAXWELL. Most assuredly not.

Senator KENDRICK. Holding that view of the situation, would you not see in the plan for the all-American canal an opportunity to eliminate that danger to a great extent?

Mr. MAXWELL. Most assuredly not, Senator. I do not want any misunderstanding about that. I am not opposed to the all-American canal; I am absolutely not opposed to the all-American canal. I never have been. What we oppose is a condition which can be briefly stated and which ought never to be out of the mind of any man considering this subject.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the position you occupy? I do not quite get your point in its fullest sense.

Mr. MAXWELL. The position we occupy is that the waters of the Colorado River should be used for reclamation in the United States of America and not in Mexico. Is that what you have reference to?

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to have your position stated in language which I can understand.

Mr. MAXWELL. That is our first position. The first issue before the committee

The CHAIRMAN. Do you want the water applied further to the creation of power or to the irrigation of land ?

Mr. MAXWELL. You must keep in mind, Mr. Chairman, that the use of that water of the Colorado River for power is a very different thing from the use of that water for reclamation. The remarks that I made with reference to the use of the water in Mexico referred, I believe I said, to reclamation. If I did not state that, then I wish to correct my statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, that is evident.

Mr. MAXWELL. The way they expect to get the water in Mexico is by storing the water of the Colorado River for power so low down the river that the water in falling to the base of the dam to develop power will go down to a level from which it can not afterwards be diverted on a high enough level to get it back onto the lands in the United States of America which are thristing for the water and on which it can be placed. If the Boulder Canyon dam is built Mexico will get water enough for 2,000,000 acres of land.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. How? In what way? Mr. MAXWELL. They will get it by the law of gravity, Senator. The base of the Boulder Canyon dam will be at an elevation of only 703 feet above sea level, and after the water has dropped to a level of 703 feet it is at such a low level that it can not be brought back again up to the level of the lands that could otherwise be irrigated in Arizona and California. It is a physical impossibility.

Senator ASHURST. Mr. Maxwell, that now leads us to the question as to where you think the dam or reservoir should be built. And inasmuch as you have stated that the Boulder Canyon dam would be too far down the river to permit diverting the water upon the adjacent lands, will you please give your opinion as to where the dam or reservoir should be, and give the reasons therefor?

Mr. MAXWELL. I, of course, being a citizen of Arizona and a voter in the State of Arizona, and for that reason having assumed that I had a right to apply to be heard before this committee, naturally preferred a place for this great storage dam that would be most beneficial to Arizona. The river can be regulated—I want to make this point briefly, gentlemen. The Colorado River can be regulated without storing the water in the State of Arizona. It could be reservoired to a large extent in the upper States.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Maxwell, if he dam is constructed at Boulder Canyon, which is 700 feet above sea level, is it through percolation of the structure of the earth that it reaches the land in Mexico?

Mr. MAXWELL. It runs down the natural channel of the river by gravity from the base of the Boulder Canyon dam to the lands in Mexico, because it is impossible to get it up again onto the lands in Arizona and California after it has once fallen to the base of the Boulder Canyon dam.

Senator ASHURST. I catch your point. You are arguing that the base of the Boulder Canyon dam is lower than the lands you propose to irrigate?

Senator ASHURST. Is that what you are arguing ?
Senator JOHNSON. Do you mean that, Senator?
Senator ASHURST. That is what Mr. Maxwell is arguring.

Mr. MAXWELL. There is a tract of land in Arizona, of about 600,000 acres which could be irrigated by pumping the water up about two hundred feet.

The CHAIRMAN. Won't you pardon me just a moment, Mr. Maxwell! The Imperial Valley in Mexico is 700 feet below the base of the Boulder Canyon Dam?

Mr. MAXWELL. It is.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, will you just follow that out? Do you mean that the water is going to reach there through the bed of the stream?

Mr. MAXWELL. May I qualify that a little, Senator? Of course the elevation at Yuma is about one hundred feet. The whole Imperial Valley of Mexico is perhaps a little above sea level; the 703 feet that I referred to is 700 feet above sea level. I do not want to be interpreted as making mistakes of that kind. The point is that the Imperial Valley of Mexico is practically so little above sea level that you might just as well treat it as being at sea level.

Now, the river runs on a hog's back, ad once the river is regulated and the floods are eliminated, then you can lead that water out over any of those lands in the delta of the Colorado River in Mexico, by gravity, with perhaps the least expensive system of distribution that can be built anywhere in the world for so large a tract of land.

The CHAIRMAN. Then your point is the water that will be left in the bed of the river is that which should go to Mexico?

Mr. MAXWELL. It has to go to Mexico. It can not go anywhere else if you build the Boulder Canyon dam. It would not have to go to Mexico if you should store or divert the water high enough up to put it on the lands in the United States of America.

Senator KENDRICK. Mr. Maxwell, is it not shown by the reports of the engineers that the all-American canal, coming out of the river, can be diverted and has to be diverted from the river below the Boulder Canyon dam?

Mr. MAXWELL. Yes; Senator. But you want to keep in mind that if you irrigate from the Boulder Canyon dam all the land in the United States that can be irrigated you are not going to use all the water of the regulated flow of the Colorado River by any manner of means.

Senator KENDRICK. In connection with that, may I ask: Would the Boulder Canyon dam interfere in any way with the construction later on of dams higher up, to take care of the needs of the country that you have in mind!

Mr. MAXWELL. Absolutely, Senator, for reason which I will state. I am glad these questions are being asked, because it gives me an opportunity to bring out the answers to them which are so convincing that this hearing is all that is going to be necessary to settle some of these questions.

If you once build the Boulder Canyon dam, and devote it to power development, as is proposed, you will have created a vested right to have the entire flow of the Colorado River come down to that point forever; except

Senator KENDRICK. That would not be true under Government control of that dam? How could that be?

Mr. MAXWELL. Let me finish that. I do not like to leave a thing half finished, Senator.

Senator KENDRICK. All right.

Mr. MAXWELL (continuing). Except as that is qualified by the compact, if it were adopted, reserving to the upper States a certain proportion of the water. Now, may I have your question?

Senator KENDRICK. It was my thought that with the Government dominating the situation it would determine the question of the location of these reservoirs, and it would also determine the question of the flow of the river into the reservoirs.

Mr. MAXWELL. That is exactly what we ask to have done, Senator; but we ask to have a complete survey made of the entire Colorado River, and a plan worked out for using the water of the Colorado River in the United States of America, instead of doing what has brought about more misery in irrigated regions than any other one thing, and that is doing some one thing at a time that interferes with something else that ought to be done later and makes impossible a proper system on that river.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you assume that Mexico has a moral right or a treaty right to any portion of the waters of the Colorado River?

Mr. MAXWELL. I assume that they have absolutely no moral, legal, international, or any other kind of right, or a claim to a right under the comity of nations.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you take the position that we would use all of the waters of the Colorado River without respect to flow of the river through a portion of Mexico?

Mr. MAXWELL. I do, absolutely, Mr. Chairman; and I want that made about as clear as I can state it.

Senator ASHURST. I agree fully with Mr. Maxwell upon that point, viz, that under no rule of international law, under no treaty or compact or rule of comity between nations are we required to send down water to Mexico. If we were so required by International law to do so, we would not be an independent power. Mr. Maxwell has correctly stated the law upon that subject.

The CHAIRMAN. And that was the subject of legal discussion

Mr. MAXWELL. The chairman put in the record the other day the opinion of the Attorney General on that very point.

Senator KENDRICK. May I ask the Senator from Arizona, or anyone here who is versed in that respect, whether that would apply to these places in Mexico where irrigation is now under way?

Senator ASHURST. It would apply. In other words, no rule of comity, no rule of international law, and certainly no treaty now requires us to send down any water to Mexico. All waters that we per to flow from the Colorado into Mexico go down there as a matter of grace.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Well, while I may agree with your statement of the general consensus of opinion of law writers and re: spectable authorities on that subject, your last word suggests what nations do and should do.

Senator KENDRICK. There are neighborly considerations.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Nations must remember that, or else great troubles, perhaps culminating in war, would result. In other words, it is held by some, who consider the equitable view, that as a matter of righteousness no nation should impoverish and utterly destroy a neighbor nation by cutting off from it a life stream. What it would be wise and proper to do in a given case would be a matter for careful and enlightened consideration.

Mr. MAXWELL. As a matter of right, under international law Mexico has no right either to water for the lands which are now under irrigation or to water for any additional lands which they are planning to get water for. Upon that point the case Schoonover v. McFadden is the authority.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Where is that case reported, Mr. Maxwell? Mr. MAXWELL. I have not here a reference to the report of the The CHAIRMAN. It is in the brief that I placed in the record.

Mr. MAXWELL. I think very likely it is indexed; it is a very wellknown case on that subject.

As a matter of international law-I think I am stating this very accurately, Mr. Chairman—they have no right. As a matter of international comity they have what might be called an equity, as Senator Shortridge expresses it, but that equity is limited by the amount of water which they have heretofore used beneficially for the irrigation of lands that are already reclaimed. That is the limit of their right under the comity of nations.

That being unquestionably true, as a matter of law, the position that the National Reclamation Association takes, and has taken for a good many years, is that the United States of America should

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