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other programs because they had no money, their jobs had disappeared, and there was no time and the food had to be provided immediately.

I am as embarrassed as I could be to have to sit here today a year later and have you come and say it has not been done.

I am also glad to say that I have been very conscious for the 3 years that I have served on this committee on the need for jobs; this is immediate; this is the first necessity.

I want you to know, Doctor, that your suggestions today are being received very sympathetically by this committee.

Reverend ABERNATHY. Thank you very kindly, Senator Murphy, for your very kind words and for your deep concern and for all you have done in the past, and for all that I know you as well as this committee will do in the future.

Mr. Chairman, I would like for Rev. Andrew Young to be the first of my colleagues to speak, if you will permit it.

Senator CLARK. Dr. Young, we will be happy to hear you. I suggest you pull that microphone in front of you so that we can hear you better.



Reverend Young. Thank you very much, Senator Clark.

Without referring to the specific bills I think the largest issue we face is: Are the poor going to become a part of the American economy, of American life? And I think that the big problem we have here is that everybody wants to know whose side they are coming in on.

I think it is extremely important for us to have a nonpartisan domestic policy where operations like OEO have some kind of independent, ombudsman status. I don't know how you do it, something like a Federal judge where the poor can come into the country and be a part of American life without having to be political football at every step of the way.

We see the Green amendment, we see this as another way to control the poor.

I think unanimously our delegations are struggling to have a say about how they can run their own affairs.

Senator CLARK. I think you understand that this subcommittee in conference put up the strongest fight we could against the Green amendment.

We found if we had to get any part of a bill at all we had to yield to the House. I hope you will make your views clear on the House side.

Reverend Young. Another thing is the supplemental funds that are now pending for summer jobs and Headstart and additional funds that are needed generally for the war on poverty.

For all of our complaints against the war on poverty, we think it ought to get the same kind of treatment that the space program gets.

When they blow up a rocket they don't abandon the program. They refinance it and go on to find out what is wrong with it.

Senator CLARK. The Senate has been pretty good about a few things, going along on the rejection of the supplemental appropriation bill by restoring funds for the poverty program, but we are having trouble with the other side of the Hill.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say a word at this point.

I cosponsored with Senator Javits and Senator Stennis a bill for a $20 million emergency appropriation to combat hunger.

It passed in the Senate and House. This year we passed an appropriation in the Senate for $75 million for the summer work programs, $25 million for summer Headstart. That was likewise stricken out in the House.

The House action in striking out was rejected by the Senate and it is in conference at this time. This Senate has tried to do, a good many times in the last few years, what you have recommended here with reference to feeding the poor.

But that was not enough. But they were beginning bills, $20 million one time, $70 million. The bill that Senator Javits and I introduced was for $150 million.

It was cut back by the Appropriations Committee in the Senate to $75 million. We also got $100 million for the program for summer jobs and Headstart together. That likewise was turned down in the House.

Senator Clark. I think I would like to say, and I think I speak on behalf of all my colleagues regardless of whether they are Republicans or Democrats, the Senate is going to continue to try. We will not give up.

Senator Javits. I think one thing should be added. I have no desire to delay the witnesses or the committee but they are hearing a good deal about what we have done. We have done well, we have done righteously. But the Congress has not always agreed with us and they want it done.

This is a forum for you to invoke the conscience of the Nation. Members of the House represent people in the Nation, too, just like we do.

So I say that, with the dignity you are showing today and the vigor you are showing today, that is your job and that is our job. Nothing is done unless it is completed and the money is there and the programs are actually performed.

Senator CLARK. And the poor are fed.

Senator Javits. And much as we may be virtuous in what we have tried to do, it has not been done and we must all share a collective responsibility.

Reverend Young. I will say to you, Senator Javits, that we certainly appreciate your Equal Opportunity Employment Commission bill and that bill or some bill like it should be passed immediately because there are jobs in existence from which minorities are excluded. I think one of the reasons you see the tide of bitterness and resentment among young black intellectuals is that they find themselves graduating from places like Los Angeles City College, Wayne University, and they find themselves discriminated against by industry in America.

We do hope, however, that any equal employment bill will preserve the right of private suit as well as strengthen the EEOC.

We would like to put that in the record. I think our main testimony should come from the people who are part of this delegation.

Reverend ABERNATHY. I was about to say that I think we should hear now from some of the poor people, themselves. I think that the American Indians, since they were here first, should speak first.


Mrs. Grass. I am Mrs. Martha Grass from Ponca City, Okla. I have come to represent my Indian people all over North America here. I want to speak about jobs and labor. This is really a foreign language to us. By that I mean too many of my people are out of jobs. It is just a miracle how we exist as Indian people.

Wherever we go we do not have education, we can't qualify for the jobs. In my hometown we can't even qualify for dishwashing jobs. Our men go out and pitch a bale of hay for 2 cents a bale for long hours, breaking their health down.

We even had to send my son out only 16 or 17 years old to help feed us at home because we have to have something to eat.

We have other children, small children in our homes. I have 11 children. My husband is a disabled veteran. He fought for this country like everyone else did but still we can't get what we need.

We were very lenient with all the foreign people when they came to our country. We shared with you all. Now you took all of it.

Now we are back there just starving and hungry and suffering. I, for myself, am sort of tired of living like we are living in poverty. We go to bed at night, sometimes we hate to get up in the morning because our cupboards are bare.

When a child asks for something to eat we have to give him something to eat even if it is just watered gravy or something like that when this country is so rich.

Everywhere we look we see everything growing so bountifully. Yet we have to starve. We can't even get jobs. We are not educated because we do not have the money.

You talk about educational funds. Who gets it? We are not even allowed to get that because we don't have the grade school education. We don't even have high school education. We have to have college education or some kind of degree before we get these jobs.

That is why we don't have jobs at home. Then employment offices. Men are standing, leaning against the wall all day long, written all over their faces begging for something to do, at least a few hours, to take something home to their children, their families.

It is unbelievable how we have to live and exist as Indian people. Today, I say, I come begging for my Indian people. I am begging for something to eat at least, because if you don't eat today you ain't going to have strength tomorrow. You don't have the knowledge to think for yourself when you are hungry and nothing on your stomach.

I have a lot of people, I even hate to go outside my door in the community I live. Little children, I don't see how they exist, how they have the energy to run and play. They eat but just one meal a day. That is the way they eat.

So these commodities, these stamp things you are talking about, I don't know nothing about the stamp program or whatever you are talking about.


guess they knew we couldn't buy them. A few get the commodities but you have to answer a whole lot of questions.

Some of the folders are that thick and we still don't qualify because we have a little land over here, the Government says you have a little property, maybe an acre or something like that, you are not qualified for a handout.

I did not come out for this handout. I am a proud Indian. We are proud of our heritage in America. I come here to seek jobs and ask for whatever you have to give to us as extra.

That is all I am asking for. Again I want to mention the space program. If God wanted people out in space to live on the moon he would have put people there.

You are fooling yourselves to think you are going to get up there and live. You had better use that money and give it back to us so that we can live while we are here on earth.

Thank you for your time.
Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

Reverend ABERNATHY. We will hear now briefly, because we don't want to run late anymore, from Denver, Colo., at this time. I introduce Rudolpho Gonzalez.


Mr. GONZALEZ. My name is Rudolpho Gonzalez. I am chairman of the Crusade for Justice, a Mexican-American civil rights organization based in Denver, Colo.

I would like to make some comments about the different programs that this administration and the Labor Department seem to be so proud about.

I would like to make this statement that most of your stereotype, Anglo stereotype programs are a flop and a farce. Your MDTA programs which are supposed to provide training for our people are usually training for positions as cooks and cleanup women.

Your on-the-job training programs have been used by private industry to be able to pay less to the employees and then drop them before they become experienced enough to take a job, so that they can hire more of them, getting this Government money to be able to operate without having to pay out of their own pockets.

Many of them who work in the OJT programs get up in positions where they can become union people but they are dropped before this period of time when they are experienced and trained enough to do the job.

Your pilot programs are merely another method of helping municipalities hire people to wash and clean their floor, clean their windows and pick the weeds and papers. This is no kind of training to take our people out of the nontraditional jobs.

I think many of your programs are strictly what we call the name game. You have so many agencies that use the same name to justify their own existence and to fatten their bureaucratic expenditures.

You control the administration, you control the political world, therefore, there is no democracy for the minorities. If we have some program, work-training program of any kind, it must become part of the manpower-training board. So we have one out of 30 in a discrimi

nating racist State like Colorado, New Mexico, or Texas or California, and the minority person cannot make any effective changes.

In fact, he then becomes just “window dressing” for the establishment.

The programs that you do put into effect have nothing to do with the culture or identification and the ethnic identification that is needed to make it productive and make it a positive and worthwhile program. Most of it is controlled by the politicians who have no feeling for the people and have only feeling for their own fat pocketbook.

The people are sick and tired of being used in a game to promote bureaucracy. To give you one fast example, in the State employment office, for instance, in Colorado, where I come from, the director, who is entrenched into politics and the Civil Service, says there is no discrimination.

Yet he keeps asking for Government money to build a $142 million youth opportunity center to hire 55 employees and all 55 of them could not talk their way out of a phone booth and do nothing to promote new jobs.

The State employment office acts as the main body of employment, yet only 20 percent of the people in our total working force across this country gain employment through our State employment offices.

The new agencies that are set up in work-training programs supposedly are nothing but satellite employment offices to sort of cool and calm the people down and to give a couple of "window dressing” people some big salaries. And again it is controlled by the MDTA boards, the OEO boards, community action program boards, so that nothing effectively is done for the people.

If one person asks for a job he is referred by the State employment office to one of these existing OJT programs. If there is nothing available they then refer him to an OEO action council there who also work for the employment office.

He also refers him to a title V program who then refers him to Labor Department agency who then refers him back to the employment office.

There are six or seven such agencies. If one man is hired all seven of them justify their existence for this one man hired. This is called the name game.

We have piles of brown envelopes coming from your offices, civil rights offices, civil service offices, with qualifications that cannot be met by our people.

The barriers that are set up become the educational barriers, the work experience barriers. The young people across the Nation do not have this experience.

It is simply a farce to drive our poor people, our economically depressed people, our minority people, into the Armed Forces.

There is no problem for our young people to pass a test for the Army and Navy and Marine Corps but it is sure a hard, difficult matter for them to pass a career service test, a civil service test and many of these employment tests set up by the racist private industries who really don't want to hire us and want to use this as a barrier to make us think we can't do the job.

We know we can do the work. Your people didn't have the experience either but they are working. We know that the fact is who you

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