Mr. MOORES. You do not have to have a civil-service trial to get rid of them, but just write to them, "Your resignation is accepted." When a man is inefficient he gets a letter from the Secretary of State to that effect. Is that right?

Mr. LAY. Yes. The tenure of office is at the pleasure of the President.

Mr. LINTHICUM. Did you mention your present occupation?

Mr. LAY. I am in a firm of international bankers-Speyer & Co. Mr. COOPER. I will say this also, in reference to the suggestion of my friend from New York, that the witness now on the stand secured an education in the Government service that enabled him to get this splendid salary which he now receives, but the witness has himself said that his life work had been in the employ of this Government in foreign countries and that he would not have retired from the Government service had it not been for the threatening poverty of old age, alluded to by Bobbie Burns in the lines: "Age and want, O, ill-matched, ill-matched pair."

So the Government eventually lost a very splendid servant simply because there was not this retirement provision. This man who now gets this munificient salary from a great corporation would be now in the employment of the Government as a great expert of the foreign service if there had been this simple provision for his old age. That is the way to look at it. He did not leave the service because he is avaricious, but because he and his wife needed something for their old age.

Mr. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Because he was impoverishing himself serving the Government?

Mr. COOPER. Exactly.

Mr. ROGERS of Massachusetts. We thank you very much for your statement, Mr. Lay. It is almost time for the House to meet.

I would like to suggest my thought as to the course of these hearings. Mr. Gibson has not quite completed what he desires to lay before the committee. Mr. Carr testified very fully last year and will help the committee, we hope, in executive session, and perhaps will be required only in connection with the retirement provision to make a further formal statement. We have gone into..... that rather more scientifically, I think, than we did last year. We have had the best Government actuaries make a very careful examination of the matter, and the substitute which I have referred to is the result of the actuaries' suggestions. I think we shall have in substance a very similar retirement proposal, but in detail a very much more carefully planned and scientifically drawn. posal.

So if agreeable to the committee, I would recall Mr. Gibson for a few questions tomorrow and then have Mr. Carr testify for the... record as to the substitute retirement proposition. After that I hope to close the hearings and to take up the bill in executive session, perhaps, the next day. As I have said before. I do not want in the least to cut off the hearings, especially if the new members of the committee are desirious of having them more extended. I should like to ask the members of the committee now if the program which I have suggested is satisfactory to the committee.

Mr. COLE. It is.

Mr. LINTHICUM. I have been rather impressed with the advances made in these hearings, and I think we have brought out several good points which will be of advantage to the bill. One of them is the point which Mr. Connally brought out, in reference to the percentages of men in the first six classes. I think also the testimony of Mr. Gibson and Assistant Secretary Wright has been very valuable. I think these hearings-I am speaking for myself-ought to be rather complete. I think they ought to be so complete that a copy could be sent to the various diplomatic and consular officers throughout the world, and I feel it will also be pretty good material for the Senate. I would rather that Mr. Carr should not be limited, but have complete hearings. We have the time to do it.

Mr. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Would you like other witnesses to be called, besides hearing Mr. Gibson briefly and Mr. Carr at such length as the committee desires?

Mr. LINTHICUM. I think we should have very complete hearings ¡ because this is a very important bill.

Mr. CONNALLY. Call those opposed to the bill and let these gentlemen close.

Mr. COLE. Who is opposed?

Mr. CONNALLY. I do not know of any.

Mr. LINTHICUM. We have 126 new members who might want to look over this matter. When you have a retirement feature it is not the easiest thing to get through the House.

Mr. ROGERS of Massachusetts. The committee will adjourn until to-morrow morning.

(Thereupon, at 11.45 o'clock a. m., the committee adjourned to meet again at 10 o'clock a. m., Thursday, January 17, 1924.)

FOREIGN SERVICE OF THE UNITED STATES.

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, Thursday, January 17, 1924.

The committee this day met, Hon. Stephen G. Porter (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order.

STATEMENT OF HON. HUGH GIBSON, MINISTER TO POLAND— Resumed.

Mr. ROGERS of Massachusetts. Mr. Gibson has a few more observations to make to the committee.

Mr. GIBSON. Mr. Chairman, I should like to touch on one or two of the questions that were brought out during the last day or two. One was on the question of our entrance examinations for the Diplomatic Service. The question was raised whether they were hard enough. As a matter of fact they are not nearly as hard as they ought to be. We quite realize that, but they are just as difficult as they can be made so long as present conditions continue. Yesterday you were told that when we had 11 places to fill we had to choose the men from among less than 40 candidates. That means that you can take the 11 best men from this group of candidates. Obviously we should get a better choice if we had several hundred men to pick and choose from instead of 40. The standard of the examination will always be measured by the range of choice. We can go on increasing the severity of the examinations as we continue to increase the number of candidates. One of the strongest arguments in favor of this bill is that it is calculated to attract larger numbers of qualified men, thus giving us the possibility of setting a higher standard for entrance to the service. This would not in any way change the principles governing the examinations-only the way in which they can be used to eliminate the unfitted.

The ability to pass a written examination can not be considered as proof that a man would make a competent diplomatic or consular officer. There is altogether too much weight attached to written examinations nowadays, and these ought to be reduced to their proper proportions. All that should be sought by written examinations is to ascertain whether a man has the fund of acquired knowledge essential as preliminary training and whether he is able to present that knowledge effectively on paper. All this should be merely a preliminary to ascertain whether he has the other qualities essential to the making of a good public officer. The oral examination not only shows whether he has the fund of information which

is essential but should display his resourcefulness, his readiness in dealing with people and problems, and should afford a glimpse of his personality. In many cases the oral examination is ample to demonstrate the unfitness of the candidate for the foreign service, and in justice to the individual and to the Government it should be possible to reject him on the spot. The retention of this power of rejection by the board of examination is the keystone of an efficient

service.

Quite aside from inability to deal with the questions presented in the oral examination, it should be possible to reject a candidate on various other grounds. For instance, if he was unduly slovenly in appearance. No wholesale grocery would send out a representative so lacking in neatness and presentability as to prejudice possible customers, and for the same reason representatives of the American Government should live up to business standards. It should be possible to reject a candidate if he has an insufficient command of the English language. A man who speaks English brokenly or who is unable to express his ideas clearly is not fit to represent the American Government any more than he would be to represent an American business concern. A candidate should be rejected if his manners and his bearing are clearly lacking in the qualities which we expect from a public official. No people on earth are more exacting than Americans as to the way in which they are received by their representatives abroad, and any man who through unmannerly bearing or tactlessness is clearly likely to rub people the wrong way is bound to cause more trouble than he is worth.

It should be borne in mind that this power to reject should be exercised only to exclude those who are manifestly unfit. If a man shows minor defects which may be cured he should not be immediately excluded. This is purely a matter of common sense and can not be laid down by regulations.

Mr. LINTHICUM. My recollection is that the question which arose was not as to whether the examination was rigid enough, but whether it was not too rigid.

Mr. GIBSON. We can not under present conditions make the examinations hard enough to limit entrance to the service to the high type of men we should like to have.

Mr. LINTHICUM. That there were 3,000 inquiries and 45 applicants, of whom 39 were designated, and out of all of them 11 passed. It is not always a question of what kind of an examination a man can pass, but what his qualifications are. It used to be that the public schools demanded that the children should pass a certain examination before they were promoted, but it was found that some of the best-informed children were scared at examinations and did not pass them, and so promotions have been made on their records.

Mr. GIBSON. In this case some of the best-informed children could not afford to take the examination. The great source of elimination among these people who write in for information is that when they see the conditions under which the Diplomatic Service is working, no matter how well qualified they may be, if they do not feel that they can supplement their salaries they realize it is useless to come to the examination. I have talked to many of them who have inquired and eventually decided not to come in, which is nearly always on the ground that they can not make ends meet. They do not want