Mr. Cocurre We had 14 days of hearings

M: BESTTAMIS. Do they meet informally'

calendar 1978 and 4

Mr. Cocurre On persoanei mamers. I don't have an exact number. I stall get that Frequently.

The information follows)

Ps. Broadcasting-March 7-9, 1978, March 13-15, 17′′S. April 6, 1978; May Filing of Claims to Cable Royalty Fees and Noncommercial BroadcastingMay 31, 1

Photorecord Player Access Regulation June 21, 1978.

Jukebox and Proof of Fixation-September 9, 1978.

Jukebox, CBT budget, rules, etc.-November 9, 1978.

All formal meetings of the Tribunal are conducted in public. While there is no formal record of the contacts between individual Commissioners concerning routine matters, the takes place on a regular and continuing basis. As stipulated in the Tribunal rules of procedure, standing committees have been established for rules, personnel, budget and ethics. The Tribunal has no administrative or professional staff and as a result the Commissioners contact each other informally on a day-today bass on matters such as drafting the rules of procedure, administrative assignments, forms for claim filing and personnel matters.

Mr. BENJAMIN. All of the Commissioners aren't located in the D.C. area, are they?

Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. COULTER. These are formally announced and conducted proceedings, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. And how about the work days? How many work days did the Commissioners devote to the tribunal?

Mr. COULTER. They were there full-time.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Every day?

Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. So you are saying that the Commissioners were in their offices every day?

Mr. COULTER. Except for travel and vacation, and occasional leave, yes, sir.

SPACE

Mr. BENJAMIN. What are the sizes of your offices?

Mr. COULTER. Currently I think they are about 290 square feet. I think that is correct.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Per Commissioner?

Mr. COULTER. 270 per Commissioner. The smallest one I think is 270 currently, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. 270 to 290?

Mr. COULTER. Yes. I think the chairman's office is about 300. Mr. BENJAMIN. How much total space do you presently lease in the Vanguard Building?

Mr. COULTER. 2,900 square feet.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Last year you indicated that was going to be doubled. Was it doubled?

Mr. COULTER. No, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. So you retained it at 2,900?

Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. When will that lease terminate?

Mr. COULTER. Arrangements are with GSA, and there is not a specific lease.

Mr. BENJAMIN. You are saying it is on a month-to-month basis? Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Does that mean that GSA is renting it and they allow you to use it on a month-to-month basis?

Mr. COULTER. That is right, yes, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. But you have not seen any lease or executed any yourself?

Mr. COULTER. No.

Ms. GARCIA. If I understand that correctly, Mr. Chairman, GSA has no such thing as a lease with their occupants.

Mr. BENJAMIN. With the government occupants?

Ms. GARCIA. That is right.

Mr. BENJAMIN. You are not saying they don't have a lease? Ms. GARCIA. For the building I am sure they do. I am talking about the government occupants.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Have you inquired as to whether space will become available at the James Madison Library building, or any other library facility?

Mr. COULTER. We weren't aware of that, sir. Mr. Chairman, we did make space inquiries initially with the Library of Congress and

Mr. BENJAMIN. When was that inquiry made?
Mr. COULTER. Early 1978, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Have you since then made any subsequent inquiry to the Library of Congress about available space within any one of their facilities?

Mr. COULTER. No. Our contacts in that regard, sir, have been with GSA.

MOVE TO 2000 K STREET

Mr. BENJAMIN. You do plan to lease offices in the building at 2000 K Street. Would you explain to us the procedure employed in gaining that space?

Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir. When we were first formed, the Library of Congress took care of finding housing for us and establishing our initial budgets, and the arrangement was considered temporary.

In the course of our first year of existence, 1978, we gained experience, and in the course of our Senate appropriations hearings last year Senator Sasser asked if we needed a hearing room. It has become evident to us that we do need a hearing room, and since we are not going to expand to the full 6,000 feet anticipated where we now are, we need facilities for a hearing room.

During the past year we have gone to rooms at the Postal Rate Commission, the Senate office building, et cetera, for our hearings. We have frequently as many as 30 people present for those hearings; so we got in touch with GSA and asked if they could assist us in locating facilities generally our same size, but with space in addition for a hearing room. Because of our size we can't expand hugely.

They have come up with this space that will give us a hearing

room.

Mr. BENJAMIN. When will you occupy that space?

Mr. COULTER. Hopefully in the near future, the next couple of months, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Is it an increase in size?

Mr. COULTER. We are now at 2,900 feet. The new space is 3,300 feet. We now have a conference room of 215 square feet.

The hearing room/conference room in the new area is 400 square feet, so the change in size is almost entirely due to the hearing

room.

LIBRARY OF CONGRESS SPACE

Mr. BENJAMIN. Did you, before you approached GSA, approach the Library of Congress to determine whether public space was available?

Mr. COULTER. I don't believe so, sir. As I say, we explained our needs to GSA and they came up with this space.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If I understand the procedure you described with GSA, you are not bound on a lease to GSA, is that correct?

Mr. COULTER. No. They lease it and then they provide us the space.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Do you know if they have executed a lease?

Mr. BENJAMIN. If I understand what Mr. Coulter said earlier is that you do not, as a tribunal, execute a lease.

Ms. GARCIA. That is correct.

Mr. BENJAMIN. But GSA apparently does that and you occupy the space.

Ms. GARCIA. That is correct.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Do you know if they have executed a lease for the 2000 K Street property?

Mr. COULTER. I believe they have. It is property they were already leasing for another commission.

Ms. GARCIA. They already have that property, Mr. Chairman, so they are offering it to us.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Is there any reason why you went to GSA instead of the Library of Congress?

Mr. COULTER. Yes. There is a long history. Some dispute existed over whether we actually came under the authority of GSA for all of office space. Our experience has been that whenever this question is raised nobody else will assume authority and by process of elimination we come under GSA. We have found that they are the authority we have to deal with in all such matters.

Mr. BENJAMIN. You explained earlier that your relationship with the Library of Congress was a temporary one.

Mr. COULTER. No. We simply contract for them for administrative services, such as payroll.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Did they obtain the first space for you?

Mr. COULTER. They did, yes, sir, through GSA.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Would it seem logical that you would go back to them if you needed additional space for a hearing room? Ms. GARCIA. If I may, Mr. Congressman

Mr. BENJAMIN. I am sorry, I didn't get the answer to that. Mr. COULTER. I must say it didn't appear necessarily so, sir. Ms. GARCIA. I just talked to Commissioner Burg, who has those responsibilities. She informs me that we did originally go to the Library of Congress, and they in fact then referred us to the Capitol architect. Then they referred us to GSA, telling us that we did not come under either one of their jurisdictions, the Library of Congress or the Capitol architect.

1979 SPACE REQUEST

Mr. BENJAMIN. If I recall the hearings of last year, this committee explained some concern about the $57,318 that you requested for rental space. You now have indicated that you have no contract or no lease for that. How do you know what the rental will be? Ms. GARCIA. It is running approximately $9 a square foot, and that $57,000 was based on the 6,000 square feet that we were going to be occupying. We had an option on another 3,000 square feet at our present location.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Then what you are telling us is that you will not spend all of the $57,318?

Ms. GARCIA. That is correct.

Mr. COULTER. Sir, the basis for that figure was initially the $9 per square foot.

Mr. BENJAMIN. When was that inquiry made?

Mr. COULTER. Early 1978, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Have you since then made any subsequent inquiry to the Library of Congress about available space within any one of their facilities?

Mr. COULTER. No. Our contacts in that regard, sir, have been with GSA.

MOVE TO 2000 K STREET

Mr. BENJAMIN. You do plan to lease offices in the building at 2000 K Street. Would you explain to us the procedure employed in gaining that space?

Mr. COULTER. Yes, sir. When we were first formed, the Library of Congress took care of finding housing for us and establishing our initial budgets, and the arrangement was considered temporary.

In the course of our first year of existence, 1978, we gained experience, and in the course of our Senate appropriations hearings last year Senator Sasser asked if we needed a hearing room. It has become evident to us that we do need a hearing room, and since we are not going to expand to the full 6,000 feet anticipated where we now are, we need facilities for a hearing room.

During the past year we have gone to rooms at the Postal Rate Commission, the Senate office building, et cetera, for our hearings. We have frequently as many as 30 people present for those hearings; so we got in touch with GSA and asked if they could assist us in locating facilities generally our same size, but with space in addition for a hearing room. Because of our size we can't expand hugely.

They have come up with this space that will give us a hearing

room.

Mr. BENJAMIN. When will you occupy that space?

Mr. COULTER. Hopefully in the near future, the next couple of months, sir.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Is it an increase in size?

Mr. COULTER. We are now at 2,900 feet. The new space is 3,300 feet. We now have a conference room of 215 square feet.

The hearing room/conference room in the new area is 400 square feet, so the change in size is almost entirely due to the hearing

room.

LIBRARY OF CONGRESS SPACE

Mr. BENJAMIN. Did you, before you approached GSA, approach the Library of Congress to determine whether public space was available?

Mr. COULTER. I don't believe so, sir. As I say, we explained our needs to GSA and they came up with this space.

Mr. BENJAMIN. If I understand the procedure you described with GSA, you are not bound on a lease to GSA, is that correct?

Mr. COULTER. No. They lease it and then they provide us the space.

Mr. BENJAMIN. Do you know if they have executed a lease?