FIELD CONFERENCES ON FEDERAL SUPPLY MANAGEMENT-PART III (Meeting held at Alameda Medical Depot, Alameda, Calif.) THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 1952 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS,1 Alameda, Calif. The meeting held at the Alameda Medical Depot, Alameda, Calif., on the Munitions Board Medical Supply Support Test, convened at 9:30 a. m., August 21, 1952. Subcommittee members present: Representative Herbert C. Bonner, chairman; (Mrs.) Cecil M. Harden, Charles B. Brownson, and Thomas B. Curtis. Staff members present: Thomas A. Kennedy, general counsel; Ray Ward, staff director; and Herbert Roback, staff director, Reorganization Subcommittee. Armed services personnel present: Rear Adm. M. L. Royar, chief, Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, Washington, D. C.; Maj. Gen. P. H. Tansey, Assistant Chief of Staff, G-4; Maj. Gen. Silas B. Hayes, Deputy Surgeon General, United States Army; Maj. Gen. Dan C. Ogle, Deputy Surgeon General, Department of the Air Force; Rear Adm. T. E. Hipp, commanding officer, Naval Supply Center, Oakland, Calif.; Lt. Col. S. G. Asbill, United States Army, commanding officer, Alameda Medical Supply Depot; Lt. Col. J. J. Strnad, Medical Service Corps, Army liaison; Commander W. E. Byrne, Supply Corps, Navy liaison; Capt. L. G. Jordan, Medical Corps, United States Navy; Maj. J. E. Dull, Medical Service Corps, Air Force liaison; and Maj. Clarence Retsky, representative of the Munitions Board. Mr. BONNER. The subcommittee will come to order. Before beginning the meeting, Colonel Asbill and you other gentlemen, I desire, for the purpose of those who probably have not met the full subcommittee, to introduce Mrs. Cecil M. Harden, of Indiana, the ranking minority member; Charles B. Brownson, of Indiana; Thomas B. Curtis, of Missouri, and I am Congressman Bonner, of North Carolina. Also, Ray Ward, subcommittee staff director; Thomas Kennedy, counsel for the full committee; and 1 Name changed to Committee on Government Operations, July 4, 1952. Herbert Roback, staff director of the Reorganization Subcommittee. This subcommittee is very much pleased to have the opportunity to visit Alameda and observe and discuss with you the Alameda Medical Test. It is my belief that this is a significant development in military supply management. It is the first time there has been a real attempt at supply distribution by unification of the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force. We hope that the test has worked well; the Congress hopes it has worked well, and most of the people of the United States, who are sweating under a huge debt and enormous budget, hope that it has worked well. This subcommittee feels a responsibility for getting this test started, and we want to thank Secretary Lovett for his cooperation in issuing his directive of July 17, 1951, which launched the program. We want to thank all the other people in the Munitions Board and the services who have cooperated in this important test. Gentlemen, it is not an easy job for Members of Congress to leave their homes, or leave Washington, to travel around the world and over the country to examine the expenditures of our armed services. It is not a pleasant job. Every member of this subcommittee and each Member of Congress has the highest regard for every man who wears the uniform, from the private to the top general, but the day has arrived when we have reached a limit on taxing the people, and something has to be done to bring about better management in the armed services and in our economy, so that we will not have to raise more taxes to carry this part of the Government, which takes now 80 percent out of every tax dollar. This subcommittee conclusively believes, after its observations made on a trip around the world to observe our military establishments, that it can be done. We have seen waste in every quarter of the world and here at home. We realize the magnitude of the job which you have to do, but private business organizations could not exist and carry on under similar conditions. There is entirely too much lost motion; there is entirely too much personnel in the operation, both commissioned and noncommissioned, and civilians. The subcommittee believes with the cooperation of you gentlemen, who are just as interested in economy and your tax problems as the average citizen; and we believe, and other Members of Congress believe, that you want to do something about it and that it can be done. We simply cannot understand why two or three different services have to carry on the supplying of common items, in which there is no difference whatsoever with respect to the three different services, or the four different services. A man in uniform uses the same aspirin and the same other medicine that the civilian uses. This subcommittee believes that there are too many stocks carried; and as I said before, from men in industry who are familiar with this problem and from good sound testimony, we have come to the conclusion that the job can be done more economically. There is one other thing that I would like to call to the attention of you gentlemen here (H. Rept. 2330). This subcommittee has issued a report on our studies so far, and during the course of our visit here I would certainly like to leave a copy of this with everyone that has an administrative position in the medical field here. Colonel Asbill, you may proceed with your presentation. STATEMENT OF LT. COL. S. G. ASBILL, COMMANDING OFFICER, ALAMEDA MEDICAL SUPPLY DEPOT; ACCOMPANIED BY COMMANDER W. E. BYRNE, SUPPLY CORPS, NAVY LIAISON, ALAMEDA MEDICAL SUPPLY DEPOT Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. First, I would like to introduce the staff here, or the group at the table. Major J. E. Dull, on that end [indicating] of the table, is the Chief of the Air Force Liaison Section; Commander W. E. Byrne, Chief, Navy Liaison Section, in addition to being officer in charge, Medical and Dental Supply Depot, Naval Supply Center, Oakland; Lt. Col. J. J. Strnad, Chief of the Army Liaison group and I am the commanding officer of this depot. First, I would like to explain, on this brochure here [exhibit 1] for the matter of the record, that Commander Byrne, where his name appears here on the front page-I put these four names down so that you people would be familiar with the group that sits at the table, but that doesn't mean that the group as a whole prepared this brochure; Commander Byrne did not enter into the preparation of this brochure. I thought I had better set that straight to begin with. I would like to give you a brief report on the general information here a little historical background and I will deviate from the brochure. I don't want to bore you with the figures which are in here, as they can be read at your own leisure. I know your time is quite limited, and we will hurry over this as fast as possible. On November 21, 1951, the Alameda Medical Depot at Alameda, Calif., assumed the distribution mission of the San Francisco Medical Depot, which had been a source of medical supplies for the Army since September 25, 1861, in the bay area. It was one of our oldest medical-supply points in the United States, dating back to 1861. We have approximately 100 acres in this post. It is comprised of five warehouses; and, if you gentlemen will reach in the back of your brochure, you will see a site plan, and I believe I can explain it a little better. The first checkerboard warehouse that you see at the top, Congressman Bonner, is the Quartermaster Market Center; they are a tenant here in this post. It supplies all the big daily food requirements for this area and the Far East, both for Army, Navy, and Air Force. The next building is our large warehouse, run by the Alameda Medical Depot. The next checkerboard warehouse, across from the administration building, is now occupied by the California National Guard. The two light-shaded warehouses are run by the Alameda Medical Depot. So much for the broad plan. Organization: The Alameda Medical Depot is a medical installation, called a class II medical installation, directly under the Surgeon General, Department of the Army. However, I have not only the responsibility here as commanding officer of the Alameda Medical Depot but also as a post commander. I have tenants, which include the Quartermaster Market Center, California National Guard, and within approximately 3 months the Army Dental Laboratory will be here as a tenant. Under that responsibility, there are certain duties I have to discharge, not only to the medical depot but also to provide to these three tenants services such as fire protection, security, certain close functions, engineering facilities, and so forth, and so on. The permanent organization of the Alameda Medical Depot is set forth in chart No. 1. This, by the way, outside of these two blocks [indicating] is identical with all of our medical depots and the one you are probably familiar with-the one on which you were briefed in St. Louis. We are set up identically, organizationally, as the St. Louis Medical Depot and as our Louisville Medical Depot. However, you will note up there [indicating] the Army Review and Liaison Section, the Air Force Review and Liaison Section, and the Naval Review and Liaison Unit, headed by these two gentlemen here [indicating], and Colonel Strnad heads up the Stock Control Division, which comprises the Army Liaison Unit, which approves all requisitions. Those are the only two blocks different from the St. Louis operation. We have an executive officer, special staff, and a management office; and then we get down to the line and mission elements, we have the Stock Control Division, the Storage Division, the Depot Maintenance Shop Division, Optical Division, and the Purchasing, which is identical, only on a smaller scale to that which you saw at St. Louis. That is the main background of this depot. The primary mission of the depot is to receive and store all classes of medical supplies, except items which are keyed to another depot. I believe it was explained at St. Louis that they were our key depot in our system. They have certain types of items there that are highdollar value, which we have a low level of. So, rather than scatter those items out and issue them out of four depots, we put them in one depot, for economy, more or less. Mr. BROWNSON. Before the colonel leaves that personnel chart, there is one brief question which I would like to ask. In your division of personnel here, are you integrated-for instance, you are the depot commander; is your executive officer also Army, Navy, or Air Force? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. No. sir; he is Army. We have an Air Force officer heading the Liaison Section, and the Navy group in the Navy Review heads the Navy Liaison Section. However, I have Air Force officers integrated in the depot by the JAFA agreement. In other words, I have an Air Force officer that is in charge of my "loose issue room"; one in charge of receiving all medical supplies here; I have my adjutant, who is an Air Force officer; and there are two Air Force officers on the liaison team, who go out and visit Army and Air Force stations to scrutinize their level of supplies. Mr. BROWNSON. You have the Navy integrated into that, too, then? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. No, sir, only insofar as their liaison team is concerned. Commander BYRNE. We have two officers. Mr. BROWNSON. It is a joint responsibility, with the Army and Air Force alternating these key positions, but the Navy comes in only in a liaison capacity; is that right? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. Yes, sir; that is the way it was set up by the Munitions at that time-during this test. Mr. BROWNSON. Thank you very much. Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. The primary mission of the Alameda Medical Depot-this is a repeat-supplies all classes of medical supplies, except the key items, to the States of Washington, Montana, Oregon, Idaho, California, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona, and for shipment overseas through the San Francisco and Seattle Ports of Embarkation; that includes the shaded area [indicating]; the United States Army, Pacific; United States Army, Alaska; United States Air Force, Alaska; the Philippine-Ryukyus Command, and the Far East Command, which includes the security forces in Japan and the combat forces in Korea are all supplied out of this depot. Since the 1st of March the Navy forces have been supplied for medical supplies out of this depot, comprising the same area; the naval shore stations within the boundary of, you might say, west of the Rocky Mountains and all the ships at sea and their various and sundry bases in the Pacific waters. FABRICATING OPTICAL GLASSES (see p. 122) We have two other missions here besides the supply mission, and one is the fabrication of optical glasses-spectacles for the Army and Air Force bases here in the United States. Occasionally, we do get a prescription back from, perhaps, Alaska, when they are unable to fabricate it and we do it for them here. Sometimes one will come back from Honolulu. However, we take care of approximately 6,000 a month here for the posts, camps, and stations of the Army and Air Force. The Navy is not included in that; that was left outside of the test. Mr. CURTIS. I would like to clear up a point in my own mind. I thought the St. Louis area was furnishing those optical items. Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. All except the Sixth Army Area. Up until we started our optical shop up, I believe the 1st of February—Mr. CURTIS (interposing). Yours is a new establishment? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. It is the newest establishment; we decided we shouldn't keep all our eggs in one basket and that perhaps we had better open up another shop to get it started and to take care of the Sixth Army Area. Mr. CURTIS. That was in February of this year? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. Yes, sir. Mr. CURTIS. Before that, though, you had supplied the Sixth Army Area out of St. Louis then? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. Yes, sir. Mr. CURTIS. Had the supply been adequate? Was there anything wrong with it? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. Yes; it had been adequate, but there was quite a lead-time period which ran from 7 to 12 and 14 days out here on the west coast in the supply of spectacles on account of transportation problems. We had a problem out here, it being a debarkation point; and, as you know, many enlisted men showed up at the last minute and discovered they didn't have spectacles and we had to rush spectacles out to them. That was one of the reasons that prompted the opening of this shop. I happened to be in the Surgeon General's office, advising the Chief of Supply at that time. Mr. CURTIS. The Korean war produced and contributed to that change? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. Yes, sir; it did. That is exactly what happened. Mr. CURTIS. As far as you know, there is no contemplated plan for setting up other optical centers in the next year or so? Lieutenant Colonel ASBILL. No, sir. We have in our plan for the entire mobilization to set up on the east coast, one in St. Louis and one |