Lieutenant HAWKINS. I imagine that a direct provision against such discrimination would have to be put in a statute.

Colonel TURNER. This is certainly a step in the right direction, Senator.

Senator JOHNSON. I agree it is a step in the right direction, except it will tend to make more records for the Veterans' Administration to use in reaching decisions on their border-line cases, and charge misconduct where that may not be and probably is not the cause at all of the veteran's contracting certain diseases or being afflicted with them. Senator KILGORE. We might amend the Veterans' Administration law by writing in: "Thou shalt not be the sole guardian of the Treasury; thou shalt also be the guardian of veterans' rights." That might help out some.

Senator JOHNSON. I was wondering if there could be any wording placed in here that that record should not be used to prejudice the rights of soldiers.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. This is merely to repeal a section of the act, Senator. I am afraid we could not put what you have in mind into the bill. I believe it should be separate legislation.

Senator KILGORE. We could put it in the act, of course, but let me ask you something. Probably the colonel is a better person to ask this question of. Does the Medical Corps ever pronounce a man cured or do they just return him to duty?

Colonel TURNER. No, sir, we stick our necks out and call them cured. Senator KILGORE. You might put a proviso in the law, something to this effect: "When it shall be certified by the Medical Corps of the Army or Navy that the man has been cured and free of infection, then the same shall not operate against him in any future case, unless it be a recurrence of the same disease." Something of that nature might help out.

Senator JOHNSON. A recurrence of the same infection?

Senator KILGORE. A recurrence of the same infection, yes. Something like that might help, but I cannot see anything else that would. Senator JOHNSON. There are a lot of poor fellows that have certainly been denied their rights.

Senator KILGORE. There are a lot of old soldiers, I imagine, concealing a condition just based on that, and a lot of youngsters concealing it because they are afraid it will become a public record.

Senator JOHNSON. They would object to making it a military record. Lieutenant HAWKINS. This does away with the forfeiture of pay. Senator JOHNSON. That is a forthright effort.

Senator KILGORE. The effort is in the right direction.

Senator JOHNSON. I have no quarrel with that, I think that is fine, I think the patient should know it, the Army should know it, if there is protection for the soldier.

Senator KILGORE. And the patient should be treated without loss of pay and without loss of anything else. I am heartily in agreement. with that. I do get your point, and it is well taken. I have been thinking about it myself, Senator.

Senator JOHNSON. I know many veterans who are in a terrible physical condition, and when they come in and apply for help they are denied it on the basis of misconduct.

Colonel TURNER. That, as far as I know, Senator, is the only place where the word "misconduct" appears. This law might take that concept out of this whole problem.

Senator JOHNSON. Your bill here provides merely for the repeal and does not add any language?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. That is right, sir, it just repeals the forfeiture section, and it does not distinguish between misconduct and nonmisconduct in the acquisition of the disease.

Senator KILGORE. One thing that might help the whole problem hereafter, Colonel, might be a proviso that all records of this nature. shall be treated, not as public records, but exclusively as the records of the Army, something of that kind.

Senator JOHNSON. I believe they ought to make records, but I do not believe so much weight should be placed on them.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions, gentlemen?
Senator KILGORE. No.

The CHAIRMAN. See what you can work out with respect to that and let us hear from you later in regard to both the suggestions of Senator Johnson and Senator Kilgore.

Senator Gurney was not here at the time we had the discussion. Have you any questions to ask?

Senator GURNEY. I haven't any questions.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. A rule that records of this nature shall be records of the Army exclusively could be established by Army regulations, sir, rather than by legislation.

Senator KILGORE. Yes, it could be done by Army regulations, but we might have to amend some statute in order to have authority for the Army regulations to be changed. There might be some statute here some place that makes that mandatory in the regulations. Regulations must conform to existing law.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. That is right, sir.

Senator KILGORE. Although they are Executive directives, they must conform to the law.

The CHAIRMAN. That is all. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

REPEALING LAW PROVIDING FOR THE FORFEITURE
OF PAY BECAUSE OF VENEREAL DISEASE

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 30, 1943

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON MILLITARY AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:20 a. m. at the Capitol, Senator Robert Reynolds (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Reynolds (chairman), Downey, Murray, and Revercomb.

The CHAIRMAN. This is a continuation of the hearing that we had last week on this bill, S. 1250. A new section has been submitted, reading as follows:

No person shall be denied, after separation from the service, any right, benefit, or privilege granted by law, solely by reason of a venereal disease contracted by him, either before or during his service in the Armed Forces; and no record thereof made by the War or Navy Department shall be revealed to any person not in that Department, or to any other governmental department, bureau, or agency, except with the consent of such person.

Heretofore, the soldier was penalized if he reported the disease, and now you are eliminating the penalty. Is that right?

STATEMENT OF SECOND LT. JOSEFH F. HAWKINS

Lieutenant HAWKINS. It is merely a repeal of the proviso.
The CHAIRMAN. So he will report the disease?

Lieutenant HAWKINS Yes, and obtain proper treatment for it. We had, as you recall, Senator, testimony on that and you requested the percentages of those who are being inducted with venereal diseases. Colonel Turner was here at the time and made note of the fact that, as they are getting more and more into lessening the physical restrictions, they are taking in some venereal diseases.

In October 1942, the percentage with venereal disease was 2.37 percent of the total number inducted; in November, 2.50 percent; in December 3.08 percent; in January 1943 the percentage was 4.37 percent; in February, 4.07 percent; in March, 4.44; and in April it was 8.50.

The CHAIRMAN. Of inductees.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. To what do you attribute that tremendous increase?

9

Lieutenant HAWKINS. I believe, as Colonel Turner said, in getting into the backlog of inductees the number of venereal disease cases is increasing. It is only recently that we have been accepting into the Army men who have venereal diseases.

Senator REVERCOMB. Were they placed in the deferred class when they were called up for induction?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. The first time, yes, sir.

Senator DOWNEY. Would that mean after their venereal disease was recognized and they were placed in 4-F, they had not yet cured the disease?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. That would be right, sir.

On reexamination, some had been classified 4-F because of venereal disease. The examinations as they now stand allow the acceptance of these people. New ones who were being examined and who had a venereal disease are brought in, besides the percentage who had been examined and had venereal diseases and formerly were put in 4-F. The CHAIRMAN. We brought up the question the other day of the law perhaps being a detriment to the prospective applicant for a pension, or something of that sort. Do you recall that?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You want to eliminate that?
Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Would this section 2 eliminate it?
Lieutenant HAWKINS. Hardly.

The CHAIRMAN. Your medical reports are going to carry the record of whatever he is treated for?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes, sir.

When a man has a venereal disease, the medical department keeps a record of it and it follows him throughout his history in the Army until he is declared to be cured of that, and then it is forwarded to the Surgeon General.

Colonel WATT. The committee requested that they prepare a draft of a proviso that could be added to this bill, which, of course, the War Department is not in favor of but which could be used as a committee amendment, because the War Department would not favor any such thing.

Senator REVERCOMB. I think that is right. I do not think you ought to take a man in if he has a venereal disease and deprive him of the facilities.

If they are going to take a man that is infected, he should participate in all the benefits of the soldier.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Another objection before the committee was the fact the man was going out and receiving unauthorized treatment, to avoid the forfeiture-of-pay provisions contained in the present law.

That is, he would go to other doctors rather than report to the Army.

Senator REVERCOMB. I would not be in favor of that if you did not take the infected person into the Army. Once you are taking him in, as you are, he should also get the benefit of the soldiers.

Colonel WATT. There are other classes of disease. For instance, tuberculosis.

Colonel SANDERS. The rule on tuberculosis is that tuberculosis is not service-connected unless the man has been in the service 6 months when it develops, or unless he has been in the service 6 months and it develops within so many weeks after discharge.

Senator REVERCOMB. That should apply to any disease, if you take a man who has any disease.

I do not want to make him a preferred class, certainly, but it strikes me if you are going to take men that are diseased or injured-suppose you take a man in that had an arm cut off, do you bar him because of that?

If the Army is going to open up the doors to the infected and diseased men, then those infected and diseased men should have the same benefits as the men who are not infected.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. That is the purpose of this bill. It repeals that pay-forfeiture law. For instance, as the law now stands, they are inducted with this venereal disease and immediately hospitalized, and during the period of hospitalization they do not receive pay.

Our present bill, which is before the committee, would repeal the law so that they would receive pay while being hospitalized for such disease.

Senator REVERCOMB. It is the case of a man not voluntarily going into the Army with the disease; it is the case of the Government picking him up and putting him in the Army.

Senator DOWNEY. This also applies to diseases contracted during the service?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes, sir.

Senator MURRAY. If they contract the disease during the service, they are not entitled to pay?

Senator DowNEY. Not at the present time, Senator, but it is suggested that they should be paid.

Senator MURRAY. If they are in the service at the time they are contracting the disease?

Senator DowNEY. Here is what they are suggesting; section 2 of the bill.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. That the committee suggests.

Senator DOWNEY. That is what we are now discussing.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Yes, sir.

Senator REVERCOMB. Has the House already acted on it?
The CHAIRMAN. No.

Senator MURRAY. Do you approve that?

Lieutenant HAWKINS. Senator, this was prepared under the directions of the committee. This is committee action. Our bill is merely a repeal of the act which provides for pay forfeiture.

Senator REVERCOMB. I think the gentleman explained before you came in here that they are reaching out now and taking in men with venereal diseases.

Senator MURRAY. I see.

Lieutenant HAWKINS. The law which is being repealed says anyone who is being hospitalized by reason of venereal disease shall not receive his pay during the period he is absent from duty.