and they missed out under that. I do not know how many there possibly were, and perhaps Mr. Birdsall can tell us.

That is all Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Hughes.

Mr. HUGHES. Thank you, gentlemen.

The CHAIRMAN. We will now hear from Senator Kerr.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT S. KERR, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

Senator KERR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I wonder if I might ask the witness two questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator KERR. You estimate the 1950-52 fiscal year will be about. $1.5 billion?

Mr. HUGHES. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. What do you estimate the 1953 fiscal year to cost, roughly?

Mr. HUGHES. It is approximately half of that. I do not recall the figure offhand, but the enrollment will drop very sharply, and we estimate a very sharp decline in expenditures. I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of $800,000,000 or $700,000,000.

Senator KERR. Then the 1954 fiscal year cost would be at considerably less than that?

Mr. HUGHES. Yes, sir; a very sharp decline each year.

Senator KERR. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am grateful for the opportunity to comment briefly on Senate bill 1940, which is now being considered by your committee. This bill, introduced by Senator George and myself on August 1, will provide educational and training benefits to our veterans who served in the active military, naval, or air services on or after June 27, 1950.

As you have just heard by the very able statement from the Bureau of the Budget, this bill is patterned after the provisions for educational and training benefits for veterans of World War II contained in the original Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944.

The purpose of S. 1940 is the same, to provide similar benefits to veterans whose educational training was interrupted or delayed by reason of their entrance into the military service after the outbreak of the fighting in Korea. However, profiting from the experience gained in the administration of the education and training program set up in the original GI bill, we have endeavored to correct the faults found in that program.

For example, this bill provides more adequate safeguards against. excessive expenditure of public funds. It will be simpler to administer, and we believe it will assure the veteran a better quality of training.

The bill has been prepared in cooperation with the various agencies. within the executive branch of the Government concerned with its provisions. It may not be completely satisfactory to any single agency. However, I understand the general objectives of the bill are endorsed by all the participating agencies.

Your committee staff has prepared a memorandum setting forth a comparison of the provisions of this bill with those of the original GI bill. In addition, representatives of the Government agencies affected by the bill are scheduled to appear here and are prepared to outline in detail their views concerning the proposed legislation. Therefore I will not use your time with the detailed discussion of the provisions of the bill. I know that you are as anxious as I am to complete action on such a bill as this in order that a portion of the obligations of our Government to these veterans may be met in an appropriate time and manner.

This Congress has already enacted legislation to provide medical care and hospitalization for the veterans. It has approved the same insurance program as that afforded World War II servicemen, together with automatic insurance coverage on those killed in line of duty in the early days of the Korean conflict.

Some of these veterans whose education was interrupted by reason of military service since the day we accepted the challenge to meet further Communist aggression with military force have returned home. In the coming months many more will return. We should have in operation now a program whereby they may continue their education and training.

I therefore respectfully urge your speediest and most favorable consideration of this bill.

Mr. Chairman, we know that, however this bill may be written after whatever amount of consideration may be given to it, it will still be far from perfect and that improvements and changes will be necessary. I think that the urgency for the early enactment of the bill cannot be disregarded by considerations of the need for the writing of the best possible bill that can be developed. I am convinced that this will be a continuing program for the foreseeable future. I am convinced that the necessities of this Government to maintain an armed force of 3,500,000 men make it mandatory that we meet not only the requirements for maintaining that force but also the necessity to provide adequate compensation, adequate training programs, for the men whose education is interrupted, whose other progress in life is deterred and who will be coming out of the service in a steady

stream.

I think that the consideration of it from their equity alone is entirely inadequate. I think the consideration of it from the standpoint of the welfare of the country, the contribution which their adequate training will make to the future of the Nation, is of vital import.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that a bill should be enacted now with the full realization that changes will be needed to be made as experience unfolds and as we learn more about it. It would be a tragedy to too long defer that which is both needed and justified in the hope that by so doing at some future date we might develop a more perfect pattern.

I think we can do both, have the program for those who will be coming out and at the same time use the experience in its operation in addition to that which we have had under the provisions of the World War II Act to guide us in making such improvements on the program as are indicated as we go along.

I want to thank the committee for this opportunity.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you, Senator. We certainly appreciate your sound advice with reference to this legislation.

It does seem to me that your thought that we should go ahead now and enact this legislation and not wait until we discover how we can have a more perfect bill is sound. The bill is quite perfect as far as I can see. I can see no real objections to it, but if any do develop they can be considered as we go along.

Senator KERR. I appreciate the statement of the chairman and say to him that 6 months were spent by the authors of this bill and their staffs in consultation with the staffs of the various agencies of the Government in an effort, an earnest effort and a continuing effort, to work out a bill that would meet their views of the necessities and conform to the indications which the experience of the World War II bill had developed.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you, Senator, for the contribution you have made to a consideration of this important legislation.

Senator AIKEN. Senator Kerr, did you discuss the effect of this with the college people?

Senator KERR. Yes, sir.

Senator AIKEN. As I was reading it, I got to wondering if this would result in a boy taking 2 years' college, then taking his 2 years in the Army, and then taking his last 2 years of college. There would be an inducement to do that; would there not? I am not saying that is bad. He gets help during his last 2 years of college if he takes 2 years in the Army.

Senator KERR. I think that is possible. I do not think that situation would be greatly changed from what it would otherwise be. I think that many men will seek to get as much of their college education before they go into the armed services as they can. Those who do will certainly come out of the armed services with their civilian life or program interrupted and this will be a great encouragement to them. There can certainly be no question about that point.

On the other hand, those who go into the armed services before they enter college will find in the provisions of this bill a great encouragement to them to start in at college when they come out of the armed services.

Now experience has shown these things: No. 1, when men are induced to enter college and when both encouragement and assistance are available to them to make it possible for them to get through 1 or 2 years of their college work that that time provides them the opportunity to develop for themselves additional means of making it easy or possible for them to stay.

Senator AIKEN. Did you find the college people generally favorable to the bill as written?

Senator KERR. Yes, sir.

Senator AIKEN. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Again we want to thank you, Senator.

Senator KERR. Thank you, gentlemen.

The CHAIRMAN. Next we will hear from Mr. Birdsall, Assistant Administrator for Legislation, Veterans' Administration.

STATEMENTS OF GUY H. BIRDSALL, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR LEGISLATION; S. H. COILE, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION AND EDUCATION; AND A. H. MONK, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT FOR VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION AND EDUCATION, VETERANS' ADMINISTRATION

Mr. BIRDSALL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the Veterans' Administration has furnished under date of September 14 a detailed report on S. 1940. As it happens the report, which is quite detailed as to the effects of various paragraphs, runs about 15 pages, excluding an attachment which analyzes the cost estimates for the fiscal years 1952 to 1957.

If the chairman is willing for us to proceed in that manner this report of the Veterans' Administration could be inserted as though it had been read into the record, and Mr. Coile, who is Assistant Administrator for Vocational Rehabilitation and Education, could give you a short summary and answer questions, with which I will be happy to assist.

The CHAIRMAN. You may go right ahead.

Mr. BIRDSALL. This will refer to your request of August 7, 1951, for a report by the Veterans' Administration on S. 1940, Eightysecond Congress, a bill to provide certain educational and training benefits to veterans who served in the active military, naval, or air service on or after June 27, 1950.

The purpose of the bill is to provide readjustment benefits to persons who served in the active military, naval, or air service on or after June 27, 1950, and prior to such date as shall later be determined by Presidential proclamation or concurrent resolution of the Congress, in the form of education or training assistance. The measure would also assure the extension of employment assistance to this group of veterans under the program afforded by title IV of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act.

In establishing education and training benefits for veterans of current service, the bill would follow a general pattern similar to that of title II of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944. It would amend section 1, title I, Public Law No. 2 of the Seventy-third Congress, as amended, by adding at the end thereof a new subsection to be known as subsection (h) which, in turn, would prescribe entitlement to education or training in favor of "any person who served in the active military, naval, or air service on or after June 27, 1950, and prior to such date as shall thereafter be determined by Presidential proclamation or concurrent resolution of Congress," subject to the provisions and limitations of part X of Veterans Regulation No. 1 (a), as amended.

Part X would be added to Veterans Regulation No. 1 (a), as amended, by section 2 of this bill. The program would contain numerous points of similarity to the World War II education and training program provided by part VIII of Veterans Regulation No. 1 (a), as amended. However, it would differ from that program in several important respects.

At the outset it should be observed that this bill is apparently based upon the concept that the assistance to be provided should be limited to

90832-51-3

such sound and constructive education or training as the veteran, by reason of his service, needs to facilitate his transition to civilian life. To this end the following general principles underlie the proposed program:

(1) The veteran should have a financial stake of his own in the training.

(2) To simplify administration and eliminate abuses, educational institutions should be required to demonstrate the quality and worth of their courses before they become eligible to participate in this program.

(3) The veteran's earned income, plus subsistence while in training, should be not greater than his probable earning capacity when his training is completed.

(4) Training of poor quality or "blind alley" training should be guarded against by appropriate provisions in the basic legislation. The major portion of this report will deal with the specific provisions of the proposed part X, Veterans Regulation No. 1 (a).

PARAGRAPH 1

This paragraph establishes the general character of the new benefit. Like the original part VIII, as it was enacted by the Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944, it would prescribe criteria for eligibility for its benefits composed of three separate elements: specified service requirements, relationship of preservice education or training status, and timely application.

The readjustment concept of this bill is emphasized by the return to the "interruption of education or training" theory coupled with the stricter time limitations which were contained in the 1944 enactment, but which were subsequently modified by amendments to the Servicemen's Readjustment Act. Eligibility under the proposed part X for education or training beyond a maximum of 12 months is keyed to an interruption of the veteran's education or training by entrance into the armed services within the basic service period.

However, eligibility for a course not to exceed a maximum of 12 months is bestowed upon all persons otherwise eligible. Presumably, this last condition is based upon the view that some kind of limited grant should be made in recognition of the fact that the veteran may have problems of readjustment in any event, and that availability of a short period of education or training would materially assist him in meeting those problems, irrespective of his preservice education or training status. All persons who had not passed their twenty-third birthday on June 27, 1950, or at date of entrance into the service, whichever is later, would be deemed to have had their education or training interrupted for the purpose of eligibility to education or training exceeding 12 months.

In apparent recognition of the fact that readjustment to civilian life must be accomplished in a relatively short period of time after discharge or release from active duty, if it is to be effective, all persons would be required to initiate a course under this part within 2 years after such discharge. The terminal date for the program would be established as 7 years after the termination of the basic service period.. As previously noted, these periods (2 years and 7 years, respectively).