Senator CRANSTON. And with limited success for those that have been reached?

Mr. BULLOCK. Right. Either limited success or we just don't know, when you get raw placement figures, "oh, yes, we placed 10,000 people in these particular jobs over a period of time," but how many are strictly part-timers as against full time?

Senator CRANSTON. Grave concern has also been expressed all through these hearings by various witnesses that if we continue and make more effective present manpower programs and expand those that are good, in a time when unemployment is apparently expected to rise and now is rising because of the anti-inflationary-type money policies we are pursuing, we will be training more people for less jobs and have perhaps a higher skill level of unemployed people and will still have people who are unemployed after they go through the process of training.

Mr. BULLOCK. You know, there was an interesting article, if I can find it, in the Wall Street Journal, I don't know whether members of the committee have seen this, but the Wall Street Journal, Friday, December 26 in its lead article, says in relation to State and local posts, "State and local posts go unfilled as business lures many prospects." "A million jobs are empty." "Low pay, red tape." "Some standards are being lowered." They mention the case, for example, of Alameda County which hired so-called nonprofessional or paraprofessional people to do jobs and found-again this is right there in the Wall Street Journal-found that they did the job much better than the professionals had done it before.

Senator CRANSTON. Are these 1 million public jobs?

Mr. BULLOCK. These are 1 million public jobs, just at the State and local level.

Senator CRANSTON. What is the article's explanation for their not being filled?

Mr. BULLOCK. A number of reasons. First, the pay is often poor; second, the red tape of bureaucracy-and I can attest to that and daily hassles with taxpayers discourage some people who would otherwise be willing to take the jobs. They indicate that some of the jobs are now so new and specialized that it is hard to recruit. What they also indicate is that a number of jurisdictions have been looking at their job requirements and changing them.

For example, if I may just read you one short sentence that deals directly with this point.

The shortage of workers is causing two major shifts in state and local governments. Some communities are lowering their standards on who is eligible for jobs. Others are trying to get more out of their administrative and professional employees by ridding them of much of their time-consuming paper work and other menial

chores.

The State of Florida, which was pinched for accountants, has waived the requirement that such staffers must have a college degree, for example.

Senator CRANSTON. What pay scale are they talking about that is too low to be contracted?

Mr. BULLOCK. They don't give the pay scales here, so in their terms I really can't say.

Senator CRANSTON. Do you have any comparable figures on how many jobs in the private sector are unfilled?

Mr. BULLOCK. I don't have them with me. No.
Senator CRANSTON. Could you get those for us?
Mr. BULLOCK. I will get them for you. Right.
Senator CRANSTON. Thank you.

(The information subsequently supplied follows:)

SUPPLEMENTAL STATEMENT OF PAUL BULLOCK, ASSOCIATE RESEARCH ECONOMIST, INSTITUTE OF INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS

Unfortunately, there are no reliable statistics on actual job vacancies in private industry at the present time. About a year and a half ago, the United States Department of Labor announced its intention to develop and publish a regular series of data on "Job Opportunities" in the major metropolitan centers of the country, but I am unable to find any indication that the announced intention has actually been implemented. However, computerized "job data bank" operations are in process of establishment in various cities, and it is likely that additional statistical information will soon be available, at least for certain areas, on a continuing basis.

Available statistics do suggest the general trend of job development over the coming years. The 1969 Manpower Report of the President, with its accompanying report from the Department of Labor, clearly reflects the spectacular growth of service-producing industries-trade, services, transportation and public utilities, finance, insurance, real estate, and government-in comparison with the manufacturing and construction sectors. Outside of government, the greatest proportionate increase in employment between 1961 and 1968 occurred in the service industry group, which encompasses the fastest-growing sector of the economymedical and health services. This group added 2.8 million workers in that period. Wholesale and retail trade also increased significantly during that time, with 2.7 million jobs being added (an increase of 25 percent). Transportation and public utilities, and finance, insurance, and real estate, expanded at a much more moderate rate. It should also be noted that manufacturing increased in that period after a long experience of relative stagnation in employment, but it appears that the prospect for long-term job development is brightest in the service industries. Again, however, the sharpest percentage increase in employment continues to occur in state and local government, as confirmed in the recent Wall Street Journal article mentioned in my testimony.

Mr. BULLOCK. Really, what I am saying here is that it seems to me that on the basis of statistics and on the basis of our personal observations, there is a tremendous need at the State and local government level for public service employment and here is an area where you can introduce and make effective the new careers concept that Jose Edwards and Tony Rushing were talking about. I think it is an excellent concept and has to be implemented.

There are various other problems here. You are talking about the existing manpower problem. Can we take some time for Mr. Collins to testify?

Senator CRANSTON. Yes; we certainly can.

STATEMENT OF SEDGIE COLLINS, WATTS COMMUNITY

Mr. COLLINS. I am Sedgie Collins and I am not employed, I am not contacted with anything at the moment.

I would like to just add on to the job situation in my community in Watts. I would like to add on to some of the problems that exist there now. This manpower development program, is to me, a fairly, well, good program. I just recently began to get involved with it.

I have to picture it in front of me: the way that I have found out in getting jobs through the State service centers and the poverty programs you have there, is not to go directly to the State service centers and apply for a job, but just to go there and get copies of

their referral slips to the different agencies in getting jobs. You just copy this down yourself, you know, and just say you were referred from the State service center there, which is not true; you know, get me over to a job. As a matter of fact I have a job now from this, you know, just picking one up.

This is just about all I have to say because Mr. Rushing and Jose (Edwards) and the rest of the people in that community have indicated the immediate problem, you know, as to what is going on, so I am quite sure you are aware of it now, what is going on so I thank you for your time.

Senator CRANSTON. Thank you.

I would like to ask Professor Bullock, do you have any questions you would like to ask him that might lead to any of the information becoming publicly available that you feel he might offer?

Mr. BULLOCK. Well, the main thing is that you know we have been having these programs in the community for God knows how many years now, how much do you think these programs by and large really help you in getting training and getting jobs? Why is it they don't reach so many people in the community?

Mr. COLLINS. Well, I put myself as an example. I have been in just about every program that has been there in the community from NYC to CEP to just about all the programs. I have been in all of them. This is not really helping me because I am 21 years old and I was 18 when I started, really. It hasn't helped me to get a job all this time and I really don't think it's

Senator CRANSTON. What specific programs have you been through? Mr. COLLINS. I have worked in the Ted Watkins program-the WLCAC, and I worked in East Los Angeles and Pico Rivera in the TOP-transportation opportunity program;' I've worked here with CEP on 103d; I've worked-man, these are some of the programs. Senator CRANSTON. How many of those did you complete?

Mr. COLLINS. I completed all of them. Everyone of them. They got tired of looking at me as a matter of fact. Like I know there are some staff members sitting back there, and they are quite surprised to see me here, you know.

Senator CRANSTON. How many jobs did you hold, at least temporarily, as a result of any of these programs?

Mr. COLLINS. To be truthful with you I haven't held any of them. Let me tell you about it.

One job, since 1965 since everything got over, I've only gotten one job out of all these programs and this program-this job was the Kennedy-Javits program that they have here in CEP. Now, to me, it just couldn't work because I was't able to go along with the pick and shovel routine.

Senator CRANSTON. Out of which training program did you land that?

Mr. COLLINS. What training program was I in?

Senator CRANSTON. What training program got you the pick and shovel job?

Mr. COLLINS. This was CEP. I stayed in the orientation they had there for two and a half weeks, maybe 3 weeks.

1 Mr. Collins was an audio-visual trainee at TOP, rather than a driver or auto maintenance trainee.

They would come to me just like we are coming to you, you know, and analyzed in my mind how much did I know, you know, and overall I found out that I knew more than most of the staff there, you know. What they were talking about, you know, is the everyday thing, you know. It was just hurting, you know, to really see that this type of people would be wheels to come down to the community and say. "Well, we have all these jobs open." Like what you got to do is just go to school. That is true though, you've got to do certain things, but just nothing will come out of it.

Senator CRANSTON. What job do you have now?

Mr. COLLINS. I don't have any job. Like I said, I fill out this card here to Beeman's Cleaners on 103rd Place. Now, I worked there when I was 17 years old. Now I have been there seeking employment since then-just the other day-and I found out they were hiring there— this is a private place and I found out they were hiring and the only way I could get in to make myself look important like, you know, I was somebody, was truly looking for a job, so I had to go down to the State employment service and get one of these cards and fill it out for me. They don't know these jobs. This goes to show you how they work there because every job I've gotten-now don't take me wrong-I've had jobs now, I've had jobs, but I don't get them from the State service center. I go out and look for them on my own and this is the way get on the job. I am not the only one that does this, you know. Senator CRANSTON. How far did you go through school? Mr. COLLINS. I went to the 10th grade.

I

Senator CRANSTON. What would you like to get into; what is your ultimate future?

Mr. COLLINS. What I would like to get into now?

Senator CRANSTON. Say 10 years from now, what would you like to be doing?

Mr. COLLINS. Well, I would like to be-I would like to have a job, you know, a dependable job. I wouldn't care if it was shoveling gravel out there, if I got paid right for it.

I'm kind of confused here. It doesn't matter to me what type of job-this is just how broadminded I am.

Senator CRANSTON. What do you mean by decent pay, what would you consider decent pay?

Mr. COLLINS. Well, anything to me is decent. I don't know what anyone else thinks-anything to me is decent that is over $2 an hour, you see, that's decent pay, because like this job-referral-here I got now, this job pays $1.75 an hour, you see, but it's a job, you know. Senator CRANSTON. What specific skills do you feel that you acquired in these 3 years of various job training programs?

Mr. COLLINS. You see, myself, I don't have any specific skills no more than painting and different things that my grandfather left me to know, how to sweep with the broom, and how to talk, you know. This is the only skills that I have, how to talk. I would like to, if it was possible later on in my life, go into a dramatics field, theater arts somewhere, you know, because I have this type of talent, I think, and this is what I would like to do.

Senator CRANSTON. Is there any one or more skills that you learned in these 3 years of training that would qualify you for any particular job?

Mr. COLLINS. No.

Senator CRANSTON. No particular skill?

Mr. COLLINS. No. Everything that I've learned I learned it on my own.

Mr. BULLOCK. Mr. Collins is too modest to say this, but I will say it, that in a number of areas he has a tremendous amount of talent. One of them, particularly, happens to be music, that I could talk about. In drama and music, he is tremendously outstanding and this isn't just my judgment, but is the judgment of a great many other people.

When he talked about getting into the dramatic field or getting into the musical field, there is really no particular opportunity to do so and, of course, the economics of the situation here is tremendously complicated. Economically it is hard. I can say this very honestly: that in the area of drama and in the area of music, Sedgie is one of the most talented guys that I have ever encountered.

Senator CRANSTON. What do you do musically?

Mr. COLLINS. I can play various instruments: that's drums, congos, the flute-these are just a few things that I practice on, to know what I know now.

I would just like to say that maybe you might have heard of Watts Coffee House that was on 103d there at a certain time, you know, I've played there, every night-every Tuesday and every Wednesday. I was in the Watts Tower street theater and we had a dramatic group there and a graduate student at USC was the teacher and we, you know, put on various plays and we got very good plays all over the county as a matter of fact, you know, we didn't stay in one place. It's over with now so I'm trying to get in the Frederick Douglass House here in Watts; they have a new one here on 103d that I am trying to get active in, but it's kind of hard. I think I will get it over with my talking.

Senator CRANSTON. Did you have any other questions, Mr. Bullock? Mr. BULLOCK. I think that pretty well covers it.

Senator CRANSTON. It's been very useful and I'm glad you brought a supplementary witness.

Mr. BULLOCK. Thank you.

Senator CRANSTON. I have a copy of your book, incidentally, which I look forward to reading.

Mr. COLLINS. Yes; by the way, my name is in that book.

Senator CRANSTON. I would like to say this at this point; I have an engagement shortly that relates to the work that we have been doing these last 2 days here, but is there anyone here who would like for just a moment or two to express any opinions or thoughts to us about your own experiences?

Two people held up their hands-do each of you individually wish to speak?

Could I ask each of you to come up for not more than 3 minutes and say whatever you have on your mind, because our purpose is to hear from the public and people who can be of guidance to us and I am delighted to take these extra moments to hear from you.

Would you please identify yourself?

Mrs. FUNK. My name is Janice Funk and I am with the CEP office at 109th and Central.

Mr. PEARSON. My name is David Pearson and I am in the electronic business and I intend to establish a business in Watts.