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machines that will be so much faster and so much more adaptable to this work that we will have to renovate this machine or get another machine, but I doubt we will ever wear it out. Mr. ANDREWS. And you say it will pay for itself in 2 years? Mr. HARRISON. Yes, we estimate 2 years. Mr. ANDREWS. Any questions on printing and binding?

Mr. LANGEN. Yes. I note you said there was a $320,000 saving on the first job you did on the Linotron.

Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. LANGEN. Does that saving show up in the budget ?
Mr. HARRISON. This was not for Congress so it is not a budget item.
Mr. LANGEN. It should show up somewhere.

Mr. HARRISON. The billing to the agency who ordered the job would show the saving. They handle their own printing budget. The only printing budget we attempt to handle is for Congress.

Mr. LANGEN. And that machine will be used only for printing of that kind and has no relationship to the budgeted item that is before

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Mr. HARRISON. You mean the congressional budget? Not at this point. One of the committees we are working with hopes to put the index to congressional hearings on tape so we can use the Linotron. The Library of Congress will use it in their title listings. We have on tape the listings of their titles and we composed the last one by use of Linofilm, which is slower than the Linotron. The last one had been printed 6 years before-it took 2 years to prepare and compose the present one. Now we can update it through our computers daily if we need to and we can update and print and have this book completed within 30 days.

Mr. LANGEN. Anyhow, the savings from the use of this machine should be accounted for in work done for the respective other Government agencies over the years to come, is that right?

Mr. HARRISON. That is right. .

Mr. LANGEN. What about the amortization of the cost of the machine? Is that also calculated on the basis of the billings and over what period of time is that accomplished ?

Mr. HARRISON. It will be written off completely in 5 years, Mr. Langen, these two machines.

Mr. LANGEN. $2 million in 5 years would be about $400,000 a year. Mr. HARRISON. Yes.

Mr. LANGEN. At the end of 5 years there should be about another $400,000 saving in the printing to other agencies?

Mr. HARRISON. Except at that time we anticipate there will be new machines on the market that we will have to buy.

Mr. LANGEN. I appreciate that and that is the reason I asked the question because I have seen so many of these figures of savings and when it comes to the end of the page the figure is always bigger. That is why I was trying to identify where the savings will show up.

What is the total cost of this order where you saved $320,000 ?

Mr. HARRISON. I do not have the total billing figure on this. I can supply that for you.

Mr. LANGEN. Will you do that?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes, the total billing cost on this job. (The information follows:) The total billing charges to the departments for all work performed in the Government Printing Office and procured from commercial contractors amounted to $348,132

Mr. LANGEN. The percentage of saving is what?

Mr. HARRISON. We saved 60 percent in bulk. I do not think the 60 percent would apply across the board but there was sufficient saving to amount to $320,000. This is over the next most economical way to do the job.

Mr. LANGEN. I just want to see it in the budget somewhere when the final accounting is made.

There are a couple more little items I have noticed in the various expenditures.

First, in connection with the budget increases, I do not know if you have a document like this, but it is on page 11 and I notice three additional book stores outside of Washington. Where are those book stores?

Mr. HARRISON. That comes under the Document presentation and the Superintendent of Documents will talk on that.

Mr. LANGEN. We will wait on that until his presentation, then.

REASONS FOR INCREASED PRINTING AND BINDING REQUEST

With regard to the total budget and the added $4.5 million involved in this request, what constitutes the major part of that increase? How much of that is salary?

Mr. HARRISON. You mean what would be the increase in labor cost for that year? Mr. LANGEN. Yes. Mr. HARRISON. Our labor costs have gone up about 5 percent.

Mr. LANGEN. So that the labor cost involved as compared to last year is about 5 percent more than the year before?

Mr. HARRISON. Roughly, yes.

Mr. LANGEN. And that in turn would be a part of the $4.5 million increase?

Mr. HARRISON. Its proportionate share.
Mr. LANGEN. What is your labor cost?

Mr. HARRISON. We would estimate about one-quarter of a million dollars would be for increased labor.

Mr. LANGEN. For about the same number of personnel ?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. LANGEN. You do not expect any increase in personnel ?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. LANGEN. So the same number of people are involved ?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes. These are the regular wage increases that have been taking place.

Mr. LANGEN. And the rest of the in rease represents a heavier workload ?

Mr. HARRISON. That is right.

Mr. LANGEN. We made reference several times to the increase and I note that since 1960 or 1961 or 1959 we are almost tripling the total appropriation. * Mr. HARRISON. Yes.

Mr. LANGEN. During that period of time, what about the workload? Do you have the same comparison ?

Mr. HARRISON. You mean just for Congress?
Mr. LANGEN. In the $31,200,000 that you are requesting now?

Mr. HARRISON. I cannot give you a flat percentage figure for all these items. The Congressional Record, as an example doubled in the number of pages. In 1961 we had 22,000 pages and at the present time it is 44,000, double.

Mr. LANGEN. The reason I am asking, we saw a bit of this the other day. We keep pointing to the increases in the various departments and the increase in the cost of Government and the growth of the Government and the growth of the work done, but all of that is not growth.

There is a substantial percentage of it that has come about because of what we generally refer to as inflation, a higher cost of doing the same thing.

Mr. HARRISON. That is right.

Mr. LANGEN. And I imagine if you were turning out the same work today as in 1960 or 1961 there would still be a substantial increase in cost.

Mr. HARRISON. There is no doubt about it.

Mr. LANGEN. So all that increase does not necessarily represent a growth in your department or in total Government.

Mr. HARRISON. A percentage of that would show in any figure from 1961 to the present date.

Mr. LANGEN. In cost of labor, postage, and everything else. Does the increase in postage rate affect you?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes. It affects our Document Division substantially. Mr. LANGEN. And that item of increase is also included in here?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes. And in a manufacturing plant such as ours you find a sizeable increase in equipment. You either have to spend more for maintenance work or you have to buy new machinery. We bought our three Record presses 19 years ago for $1 million. They would cost $1 million apiece conservatively today.

Mr. ANDREWS. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

BASIS FOR EVALUATING COMMERCIALLY PROCURED PRINTING Mr. LANGEN. One further point: I do not know if I understood completely the comparison of the printing that you do in your shop and that which you farm out to outside business. Did I understand you to say you estimated in your shop what each of these jobs would cost as a guide in determining if the bid price was right?

Mr. HARRISON. We usually do that unless it is a repetitive job that we have bought over and over.

Mr. LANGEX. On the basis of that, wouldn't that give you an analysis as to the difference in the cost of one as compared to another?

Mr. HARRISON. As I prefaced my statement earlier, when you are buying on the bid market nothing is static, nothing is the same. You might bid a job today and a man who needs work in his plant will bid way below cost in order to keep his pressmen working and his presses rolling. At another time it may be higher.

Mr. LANGEN. I appreciate there might be a variation, but what was the amount, $97 million?

Mr. HARRISON. $97 million.

Mr. LANGEN. There must be some kind of indication that if we had done it ourselves it would have cost $90 million or some other amount.

Mr. HARRISON. The point is we cannot do the work even if we could do it at less cost. We do not have the space, we do not have the equipment, and we do not have the manpower.

Mr. LANGEN. It still does not seem to prevent a comparison being made. You have expressed an interest, as many of us have, that commercial printers have to survive, too.

Mr. HARRISON. That is right.
Mr. LANGEN. Where is most of it let of the $97 million?

Mr. HARRISON. We have 2,000 names of companies on our bid list. They are in every State except, I believe, Alaska and Hawaii that do not have bidders registered with us. These plants are all categorized and when we get a job that fits its category we send out bids on a rotating basis. If we have 200 in one category we will not send out bids to all 200 but will send to 20 on one bid and 20 on another and so on on a rotating basis.

Mr. LANGEN. How many bidders did you have last year?

Mr. HARRISON. We had 71,100 because we had that many contracted out.

Mr. LANGEN. And these would be located in practically all the 50 States?

Mr. HARRISON. Yes. You see, the distribution of publications will have a lot to do with the bid process. If this is a job primarily to be delivered on the West Coast it would be delivered on a free on board basis to the West Coast and the printers out there might be low, al. though we find sometimes it is cheaper to have the printing done here and shipped out there than to have it done out there. It is a real competitive business. That is why we try to estimate as many jobs as we can to be sure we are not buying jobs at too much over normal cost.

Mr. LANGEN. If it is not too much above normal cost it seems it would be good to have them do it because they are taxpaying people.

Mr. HARRISON. If we get four or five bids on a job and they are considerably higher than our estimators estimate they should be, we throw them out and rebid the jobs.

Mr. LANGEN. The reason I am inquiring is because we did have an instance in the printing of stamped envelopes that was unusual. Mr. HARRISON. That is the Post Office Department's contract.

Mr. LANGEN. The bids had been going to one concern for well orer 30 years and mostly because there was not lead time enough for any other company to qualify, and a good many millions of dollars had been lost by having them all printed in one place for a long period of time, and along with it went the distribution cost. It is for that reason I was inquiring as to how well distributed this printing is. If it is for Alaska it seems it should be done there.

Mr. HARRISON. The Linotron job I referred to in my statement was divided. A printing plant in St. Louis was awarded “X” thousand copies. There were two or three different locations. That was done primarily because the volume was so great some of the plants could not do it all but they could give us a good price on “x” number of copies. The distribution of the contracts helped because it was to be distributed all over. We try to find the best and most economical way to buy printing for a customer.

Mr. LANGEN. That is all.
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Yates.

GOVERNMENT PRINTING PLANTS Mr. YATES. Are all Government agencies required to do their printing through your office?

Mr. HARRISON. The law says all Government printing shall be done at the Government Printing Office except that which the Joint Committee on Printing deems necessary to have done elsewhere. The Joint Committee on Printing has authorized a number of agencies to have their own plants. They are generally small plants set up to do the dayto-day work that the agency needs. The larger printing jobs generally come to us from the Government agencies.

Mr. YATES. What agencies have this type of authorization?
Mr. HARRISON. For their own plants?
Mr. YATES. Yes.

Mr. HARRISON. There are 330-some authorized Government plants throughout the world.

Mr. YATES. What do they print ?

Mr. HARRISON. It is the type of work they need to do themselves such as forms and some other printing. The Bureau of Mines, for example, has a plant to print their reports on safety tests of mines.

Mr. YATES. Who does the maps for the Geodetic Survey?
Mr. HARRISON. They have their own plant.
Mr. YATES. Who does the work for the State Department?
Mr. HARRISON. We do their administrative work.
Mr. YATES. What about their monthly Bulletins ?

Mr. HARRISON. I think we do. They have plants outside the United States and we have no control over them. There is a list in the back of the printing and binding regulations put out by the Joint Committee on Printing that lists all these plants.

Mr. YATES. You do not know the total cost of work done outside vour organization ?

Mr. HARRISON. We estimate we do about half of the Government printing. That is based on material the Joint Committee on Printing gathered a couple years ago. That means we do $200 million and other plants and agencies will do another $200 million.

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