Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Chairman, I think there was some division in the Legislative Reorganization Committee on that very point.

Mr. ANDREWS. I am sure there was a division, a conflict of opinion. But my question is this S. 355. It definitely, according to my information, proposes to abolish your office and transfer it to the Legislative Reference Service in the Library.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you have any comment on that?
Mr. SULLIVAN. I am against it.

Mr. ANDREWS. I do not blame you for that.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I am against it on the ground that we perform a service, and we are also in the Capitol and in the office building and there are functions-and we have discovered it in our 20 years of experience there are functions which only an organization on the ground can handle. If you have to run to the Library of Congress across the plaza, you will skip it in many cases.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you happen to know what the vote on this particular recommendation; namely the abolition of your office, was in the committee or on the floor of the Senate?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, I do not. I read the committee report and I know there was quite a bit of division in the committee on that very point. Mr. ANDREWS. On the question of abolition of your office? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir, and the consolidation."

Mr. ANDREWS. When the committee was holding hearings on S. 355, did you make a presentation to the Joint Committee?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir. We never were invited to appear before the joint committee. I wrote a letter to the chairman of the Rules Committee, Chairman Smith, in the 89th Congress, and made a special plea, inasmuch as we had never been permitted to testify before the Legislative Reorganization Committee, we be heard by the Rules Committee before any decision was made on the bill.

Mr. ANDREWS. Have you renewed that request with the present chairman ?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Colmer, yes, and he has assured me we will be heard, very graciously.

Mr. ANDREWS. He is a very gracious gentleman.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I recognize that. I have known him many years. (Off the record.)

Mr. ANDREWS. That is all the questions I have for Mr. Sullivan. I admire your forthrightness in saying you oppose S. 355 and you do not think your office ought to be abolished.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I have written a number of letters on the subject. Mr. Chairman, and I have had some very, very flattering and encouraging responses. I will not burden the record with them.

Mr. ANDREWS. No, you had better present those to the Rules Com mittee.

Mr. SULLIVAN. These are letters in response to the suggestion we pu out on the proposal. We have had many, many very flattering and encouraging letters.

I think probably you are right, they go to the Rules Committee in stead of this record.

Mr. ANDREWs. Mr. Steed?
Mr. STEED. No questions.
Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Langen?

COORDINATOR'S LIBRARY

Mr. LANGEN. Mr. Chairman, will you clarify for me something with regard to these duties? I have heard your reference to supplying bills, committee reports, and other information.

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. LANGEN. Where do you get your supply of bills and committee reports?

Mr. SULLIVAN. We go to the document room every morning and get a load of them. We have a truck bring them over sometimes. Early in the session we get 5,000 new bills introduced in 3 days and we get every one of them and file them alphabetically.

We also get from every department in the administrative branch every day all of their press releases, and if we find that somebody has authorized a $19 million dam in Colorado, we send it to the Member in that area. So that frequently he learns from the Government press release that they have authorized a dam or an irrigation project or a reemployment program in his district before he gets it from home, or in the papers.

We give him the press release from the department. We get about 3 pounds of press releases every day and we scan them and where we can identify an area and tie it up with a particular Member, we send it to him by page.

Mr. LANGEN. So you then wind up with a supply of bills and comittee reports comparable to the document room?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No, sir; we clean them out every year. When the session is over, everything that is left over goes out in one big truck. Mr. LANGEN. On any given day during the course of the session To supposedly have a supply of all of them?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is right.

SERVICES TO MEMBERS ON BILLS AND REPORTS

Mr. LANGEN. And are in a position to furnish those copies to MemDers on request?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is right, yes, sir; and we can, no matter which Eding he is in. You can get to him in 10 minutes.

Mr. LANGEN. You have quite a few left over at the end of the year? Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir. We make it a rigid point of policy to clean the shelves every year. As soon as adjournment comes, we clean -in out and are ready for the next session.

Mr. LANGEN. Suppose somebody calls and wants a copy of a bill that sintroduced last year?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That is the document room. We can give them the Rumber and tell them the general topic and all he has to do is call the demment room, and if it is back 25 years he can get it.

Mr. LANGEN. Where do you get that information, if you throw away 1 of the bills you had last year?

Mr. SULLIVAN. We keep a record of it. The last Record of every ress lists every bill that was introduced and gives the number aa synopsis of the subject. The final Record of every session. And as the final calendar of every session gives the complete synopsis of ery bill introduced in that session. We keep those annual calendars.

78-853-67-22

Mr. LANGEN. Those are also available to every congressional office, are they not? As well as from the document room, and legislative research.

Mr. SULLIVAN. They are, but they misplace them and do not have them sometimes when they need them. We frequently get a request for the author or sponsor of a bill that was introduced 10 years ago. Who introduced the first bill to make fresh water out of salt water? That was probably 1943 or 1944, and we can dig it up for them.

Mr. LANGEN. You say you get about 15,000 calls a year. What subjects do they deal with primarily?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Mostly with legislation in process. We analyzed one member's mail in a kind of a joint project one time, and he got 150 letters a day and more than half of them were inquiries or suggestions about bills now in process; half of the mail.

Mr. LANGEN. We were talking about telephone calls.

Mr. SULLIVAN. These are the calls which come to us from the mail that the member gets from the constituents. John Brown writes in and says, "I'm against so-and-so" and the clerk in the office does not even know where that bill is.

Mr. LANGEN. I seem to recall a year ago that you told this committee you had a number of calls regarding the stock market and what had happened to it. Do you still get calls on that subject?

Mr. SULLIVAN. I said occasionally we get inquiries on economic topics, including the stock market. Yes, we do. We get calls every once in a while asking how American Motors is today compared with last year. That is not our province, but we can refer them to the stock broker downtown that can give it to them.

Mr. LANGEN. That is all.

Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Andrews?

TICKER SERVICE

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. You mean you have a room in the Capitol where you keep the ticker?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWs of North Dakota. One room or two rooms?

Mr. SULLIVAN. One.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. And you have two people there?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. Doing nothing but looking at the ticker?

Mr. SULLIVAN. No; we get the Government press releases every day. We get a whole pile of them.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. They go to the same room?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes; about 10 o'clock every morning. We scan them and then we get our telephone calls usually two or three or four an hour, and occasionally we get a call from some committee to come over and bring this or that. So the day is pretty well used up before we

start.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. Do you really think in this day of mass communication if a tornado hit my district in North Dakota you would pick that off the ticker before I hear about it 25 times?

Mr. SULLIVAN. It has happened many times. We had a fireworks explosion over in Maryland and the Member did not hear about it apart from our communication from the ticker for 2 hours.

And the Alaska earthquake 2 years ago, we were 4 hours ahead.

Mr. ANDREWs of North Dakota. There must be a vast difference in the people in Alaska and North Dakota, because I am sure most Members of the Congress probably know about what is going on in their districts faster than the AP or UP find out about it or they would not stay as Members of Congress.

Mr. SULLIVAN. I think that is true, Mr. Andrews, in the case of routine developments, but in some sudden disaster the UP might get a piece of it or AP might.

QUESTION OF NEED FOR THE SERVICE

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. I was interested in a big article in one of the local newspapers a couple of months ago about what a wonderful amount of information you can put out.

Mr. SULLIVAN. That was Sam Davenport; yes.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. It was real well done; I figured you would be coming up before the committee so I wanted to find out how it worked. I asked one of my staff members to call over on a couple of different occasions asking about specific pieces of information concerning different departments of government. As far as a coordinator of information for what is going on, either they were talking to one of your stenographers or they certainly did not get anybody who knew. Maybe they were just the clippers they were talking to.

I will give you that benefit of the doubt, but to my mind the only legitimate reason for having an office like yours would be for an individual in congressional office to pick up the phone and find out about how many different types of programs there were affecting say education or something like this, cut through some of this mass of redtape, not to add to it.

If I do not know when a dam is being built in my district, I would not have had anything to do with it and I probably would not belong in Congress. I do not have to have somebody tell me about a new project going in my district and I do not think any other Member of Congress does.

Mr. SULLIVAN. You mentioned education. We subscribed to a new subscription service just last week that itemizes some 200 different programs of Federal aid to education, and they operate through 14 different departments and agencies, and I had no idea until we got this list, of how many different types and forms of aid to education were operating.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. You mean before you got this list which comes from an outside commercial source you could not have told a Member of Congress which program to apply to if he wanted to build a school in his hometown?

Mr. SULLIVAN. We could have suggested a place.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. You would not have known?
Mr. SULLIVAN. Not for sure, with 200 programs going.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. Who would know if the Coordinator of Information would not know?

Mr. SULLIVAN. The Department can tell you.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. If the Department can tell us, why do we need a Coordinator of Information?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Because, in many cases you would have to call five departments to get the one that was administering this particular program.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. You just said the Department can tell us.

Mr. SULLIVAN. They can tell you after you get the right department. If you call the Public Health Service for a program that is being administered by HUD, you do not get the answer.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. If my staff calls the Public Health Service for information concerning a program that is being administered by HUD, they ought to be fired, and they will be fired if I find out about it.

That is all.

Mr. ANDREWS. All right. We will meet again at 2 o'clock.

AFTER RECESS

Mr. ANDREWs. The committee will come to order.

TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE SERVICES

Mr. JENNINGS. The next item of business, Mr. Chairman, is on page 45 of the committee print, for "Telegraph and telephone services." For the fiscal year 1968, we estimate $4,032,000, the same as requested for 1967.

Mr. ANDREWS. This record shows, on page 45 of the committee print, that for 1967 you had $2,880,000. You had a supplemental. Did the supplemental bring it up to the $4,032,000?

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes, sir. That was the request we made. As I understand it, you cut the request by $700,000 in the supplemental appropriation.

Mr. ANDREWS. We just recently discussed this item in connection with the pending supplemental bill. We are recommending an additional $450,000 for 1967, which would make available a total of $3,330,000, as your statement indicates.

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes, sir. If you will notice, I changed my statement here to say that for the fiscal year 1968 we estimate $4,032,000, the same as requested for 1967. I had no way of knowing at that time, theoretically.

Mr. ANDREWS. You are asking, for 1968, $4,032,000?

Mr. JENNINGS. That is correct. That is the same amount we requested in the regular appropriation and the supplemental for 1967. Through February 28, 1967, we have expended $771,759, leaving a balance of $3,260,240.77. However, the bills we have paid are mostly only through December and, therefore, we have to disburse for 6 more months through June 30, plus any pickup bills that may be rendered for service later.