Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. How many patronage vacancies do you have now?

Chief POWELL. We have actually 15 vacancies. I believe I may have erred slightly in response to a previous question. There are 15 actual vacancies. Five others have submitted their resignations but they are on the payroll. At the present time they are on terminal leave.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. If these patronage positions were filled, how many new positions would you need?

Chief POWELL. We would still need these additional positions filled because these patronage positions that are vacant have been previously considered in the estimate for coverage of posts. We still have posts unmanned.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. Where are the patronage jobs?

Chief POWELL. They are scattered at various posts. As the need arises we have to draw men from the least demanding posts as we see it and reassign them where the need is greater.

Mr. ANDREWS of North Dakota. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ANDREWS. You have dropped the Pay Act supplemental this year which was $39,950?

NONPATRONAGE POLICE POSITIONS

Mr. ANDREWS. Chief, I want to ask you about these 69 newly authorized positions of privates. What type men have you gotten with reference to experience, age, and I am sure they are all in good physical condition?

Chief POWELL. We have gotten very good capable men as a general

rule.

Mr. ANDREWS. These are real police officers?

Chief POWELL. Yes and they are being trained to be more efficient. They are performing good service for us and generally they are dependable. Out of the 69 we have had a total of three that we found to be somewhat unsatisfactory and they were permitted to resign and were replaced.

Mr. JOHNSON. Actually, all these men appointed are on a temporary basis for a year or so. They are told when they are interviewed that it is more or less temporary, and they have to qualify themselves in order to stay on the force.

Chief POWELL. We have gotten several men, at least 40, who have retired from the military service in their early forties. At least half of those men have been sergeants or have held some rank in the military service and many of them have had military police experience. Some of them have attended police training schools at various locations in the country and they are comparatively easy to train for Capitol Police duties.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you have any trouble getting police officers?

Chief POWELL. No, sir. We have not found any serious trouble in recruiting these men. There is not an unlimited supply of qualified men ready and waiting, but we found that if we recruited these men over a period of a few months we could obtain better men and train them with less difficulty.

Mr. ANDREWs. I read in the paper from time to time that the Metropolitan Police force is under authorized strength and they have

a hard time getting men to serve. How do you account for the fact you have no trouble recruiting men?

Chief POWELL. There are several factors, one being that there is quite a bit of publicity about the crime condition in the city and I think our positions offer a little less likelihood of mingling with what might be termed an element of people with whom some people do not care to mingle. On the other hand, I think perhaps the most important factor in our being able to recruit more easily than they is that our age limit is not the same. The Metropolitan Police force cannot at this time employ a person who has passed his 29th birthday.

POLICE SALARY BUDGET

Mr. ANDREWS. How much, Mr. Sergeant at Arms, of this requested amount of $1,596,500 is for the pay of policemen?

Mr. JOHNSON. $1,401,245.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is for salaries of the police force?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. How much are you requesting for the operation of your office of the Sergeant at Arms?

Mr. JOHNSON. $193,925.

Mr. ANDREWS. Are you requesting additional employees?

Mr. JOHNSON. No, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. How do you arrive at the $220,500 increase requested for 1968?

Mr. JOHNSON. Sixty-nine additional policemen plus the three sergeants.

Mr. ANDREWS. Under Public Law 89-697, to which you referred, we provided $295,000 for fiscal year 1967 for the 72 career type positions.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. Was that a full year or just a part of a year or what?

Mr. ANDREWS. What is the annual cost of these 72 positions? The Chief POWELL. The positions were not filled the full year.

point is if we gave it to you in 1967 why does it show an increase in 1968?

Mr. GIBSON. Public Law 89-697, when it finally came out of committee, only allowed for 8 months of the year and did not have the 2.9 percent pay raise in it.

Mr. ANDREWS. That amount was for the 72 newly authorized men? Mr. GIBSON. Yes, I think for 8 months. So in 1968 we are picking up a full year plus the 2.9 percent plus $23,000 transferred for uniforms, and there were one or two longevities.

Mr. ANDREWS. How much are these new officers paid, the 69?
Chief POWELL. $6,287.15.

Mr. ANDREWS. How does that compare with the Metropolitan Police force?

Chief POWELL. The Metropolitan Police salary starts at $6,700. Mr. ANDREWS. You are about $500 under?

Chief POWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. What about the patronage policemen, what are they paid?

Chief POWELL. The same.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do they all have fringe benefits such as life insurance, retirement, and so on?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is optional, the insurance, retirement and health benefits.

Mr. ANDREWS. But they are entitled to it?

Mr. JOHNSON. They are entitled to it.

EVENING OPENING OF THE CAPITOL

Mr. ANDREWS. What about the coverage during the evening opening of the Capitol? Is that working out all right?

Chief POWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. You have not had any actual vandalism to amount to anything?

Chief POWELL. Not during the evening.

Mr. CASEY. What hours are they open?

Mr. JOHNSON. The Capitol is open, the Rotunda and Statuary Hall, until 10 o'clock at night between Easter and Labor Day.

Mr. ANDREWs. That was done by action of the committee last year and it seems to be very popular. There are such big crowds coming here they cannot all be accommodated during the daytime and the number coming at night is on the increase and they say it is working very well.

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

CAPITOL GUIDE SERVICE

Mr. ANDREWS. Is there any special problem on the guide service and does the reorganization bill propose to alter the guide service arrangement?

Mr. JOHNSON. Actually at the present time the guide service is a self-sustaining operation. The Reorganization Act proposes to put these people, the guides, on a salary and make no charges for tours. Mr. ANDREWS. What would it cost to operate on a salary basis rather than a fee basis which the guides charge and retain?

Mr. JOHNSON. It would depend on the salary the Reorganization Act sets for them. There are 24 guides, 12 on the House side and 12 on the Senate side.

Mr. YATES. What do they charge?

Mr. JOHNSON. They charge a fee of 25 cents for adults and 15 cents for children.

Mr. YATES. Does anybody know what that means in terms of what they earn per year?

Mr. JOHNSON. They get about $12,000 a year.

Mr. YATES. Each guide?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. I think under the Reorganization Act they set the salary at about $7,200.

Mr. ANDREWS. How are these guides appointed, Mr. Johnson? Mr. JOHNSON. Twelve are appointed by the House and 12 by the Senate.

May I say this, Mr. Chairman. It has been a policy not to change these guides as long as they are doing their job, and as long as I have been here I have not changed those previous guides at all. Some have

been here for quite a long time and I have not changed them, but when a vacancy occurs then I make an appointment.

Mr. ANDREWS. You make the appointment?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, on the House side.

Mr. ANDREWS. You are responsible for the 12 guides on the House side?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Mr. ANDREWS. And you say they average around $12,000 a year? Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir, around $12,000.

Mr. YATES. How do you know this?

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you keep any records?

Mr. JOHNSON. Their records are audited by the General Accounting Office.

Mr. ANDREWS. Yearly?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yearly. It could be a little more than $12,000. It varies from year to year but I would say it averages $12,000 a year. But their records are audited all the time, actually.

Mr. YATES. What do you mean by an average of $12,000?

Mr. JOHNSON. Some year would be greater than others. It depends on the number of people coming through. It would be an average of $12,000.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you have a record of their earnings?

Mr. JOHNSON. Absolutely.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would place in the record the earnings for

the last 5 years.

Mr. JOHNSON. That would take Board action.

Mr. ANDREWS. What board?

Mr. JOHNSON. The Police Board. We requested this audit to be made; the Board requested it.

Mr. ANDREWS. The Board is made up of the Architect and the Sergeants at Arms of the Senate and the House?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. ANDREWS. What objection would there be to putting that in the record?

Mr. JOHNSON. I do not think there would be any objection but I would have to ask the Board.

Mr. YATES. Why?

Mr. JOHNSON. Because it is the Board's request.

Mr. YATES. What is the Board's request?

Mr. JOHNSON. For the audit. You see, the General Accounting Office audits their records.

Mr. YATES. What you are saying is that the audit is the property of the Board?

Mr. JOHNSON. That is right.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do you know if there was any testimony given in the hearings on the Reorganization Act with reference to the earnings of guides?

Mr. JOHNSON. I expect there was.

Mr. ANDREWs. Put that in the record.

Mr. CASEY. Why do we not find out how the guide service got set up in the first place and go from there?

Mr. ANDREWs. He said he inherited it.

Mr. YATES. Who created the deed of trust?

Mr. CASEY. Let us find out what the history is. How was the Board set up?

Mr. JOHNSON. By law. United States Code, title 40, section 212a. Mr. ANDREWS. Have somebody research it. The hearings on the reorganization bill might shed some light on it. Let us get a history of the guide service.

Mr. JENNINGS. I will have my attorney look into that. (The information requested follows:)

FACT SHEET

U.S. CAPITOL GUIDE FORCE,

CARE OF SENATE SERGEANT AT ARMS,

U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., March 22, 1967.

As the United States Senate has passed the Joint Reorganization Act, which contains a section dealing with the Capitol Guides (Title 4, Section 424), and as it now comes before the House of Representatives, we should like to set forth some of the facts concerning the Capitol Guide Force.

1. In 1876, the year of the Philadelphia Centennial, large groups came from Philadelphia to Washington to visit the Capitol. As there was no one to show them around, the Sergeant at Arms of the Senate and of the House established a Capitol Guide Force. They set the charge for the service at 25¢ for adults and 15¢ for school children. The same prices prevail today.

2. There are 24 guides, including the Captain and Assistant Captain. Twelve are appointed by the Sergeant at Arms of the Senate, and 12 are appointed by the Sergeant at Arms of the House of Representatives. The guides function under the direction of the Sergeants at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. (U.S. Capitol Police Board.)

3. There is a guide desk in the Rotunda where numbered tickets are available for those wishing to take the tour. As many as 12 million people a year do (approximately 30% of the total number of visitors).

4. The proceeds from the sale of tickets are banked daily and are then equally distributed by check weekly among the guides under the supervision and audit of the General Accounting Office. The average pay per guide for the last three years was $12,200. With the exception of Social Security (for which we pay both the employer and the employee share), we receive no other benefits. One guide has 38 years of service, others have 28 years, and two have only 12 years. The average length of service is 10 years.

5. Our working hours are 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. from Easter to Labor Day, and 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. the remainder of the year. Tours are given 362 days a year. No tours are given on Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's.

6. We are the "General Bureau of Information," giving directions and information to all who ask whether or not they take the tour.

7. The guides assist the police by observing the tourists and immediately reporting to them any suspicious person or activity.

8. At times when the Capitol is closed to tourists, the guides are often asked to act as ushers on State occasions.

The aforesaid facts are submitted for your information. If the Guide Service should become free to the public, we can anticipate at least a doubled work load. We should like to have this fact taken into consideration with regard to arriving at a fixed salary. In addition, we should like to be under the retirement program, both electively and retroactively. Respectfully submitted.

FLOYD KIRBY, Captain, U.S. Capitol Guide Force.

Mr. ANDREWS. Any questions on the Office of the Sergeant at Arms? Mr. CASEY. I do not have so much questioning but I have an observation I would like to pass on to Chief Powell.

Chief, I have noticed and it has been frequent, and I do not walk outside too often unless the weather is sunshiny-but I have noticed people driving on the Capitol Grounds and they are pretty cautious until they get to the southeast corner of the Capitol. I am talking about