Mr. WYMAN. Is this a revolving fund?

Mr. JENNINGS. No, sir.

Mr. WYMAN. If a Member of the House has a Flexowriter and wants to exchange it for a Dura, you have a rule he has to wait 4 years before he can do it?

Mr. JENNINGS. Five I believe.

Mr. WYMAN. Five?

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes.

Mr. WYMAN. With reference to Mr. Andrews' question, have you ever considered the possibility of pooling this equipment, so that if a Member wanted certain electrical equipment he could make changes with other Members, and so forth?

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes; I have considered it, based on my experience as a Member and also what limited experience I have as Clerk. I think I could make some recommendations in that respect, but there again at present I am just merely carrying out the rules and regulations that were passed by the House and ruled by the House Administration Committee.

Mr. WYMAN. Have you, to date, made any recommendations with regard to pooling equipment so it might be available, particularly those items of equipment that are only used on a weekly or biweekly basis by individual Members so it could be put into Members' rooms and when he is through with it then to be taken out and put into another Member's room who happens to want it?

Mr. JENNINGS. No; I have not made the recommendation. I have asked the committee to give consideration to just one idea that I had, and I do not know whether it is practical or not.

I can see one reason that it is not practical because of the space requirement. It would appear to me that a business approach to the operation of this equipment would be to let every Member check into a stockroom any piece of equipment he no longer needs or wants and receive credit for the depreciated value of the equipment. If another Member had a need for it, he could buy that piece of machinery at the depreciated price, or he could buy a new piece of machinery at the new price. We would maintain a stockroom that I think would render a better service and get some of this unwanted equipment out of the Members' rooms. That is just one thought.

Mr. WYMAN. What committee has the legislative authority here, the Committee on House Administration?

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes.

Mr. WYMAN. Have you testified before them or gotten this point of view to them?

Mr. JENNINGS. No, sir; I have not.

Mr. WYMAN. When you take, for example, the subject of mechanical typewriters equipped with large-size type for speechwriting, is there any provision now for the availability of this type of equipment to Members?

Mr. JENNINGS. Not per se. We have some of those typewriters over in the office equipment department. If they are not being used or if they are not assigned to another Member, they can be made available on a temporary loan basis.

Mr. CASEY. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. WYMAN. Yes.

Mr. CASEY. I do not know where my staff did it, but here a while back they asked if I wanted a speech on large type and one of the girls disappeared and came back with the big huge type.

Mr. JENNINGS. She could have gone to a Member's office that had one of them. If there is one available down in the office equipment department, she could have used it.

Mr. CASEY. They never brought it to the office, I know that. Mr. YATES. IBM has the new device, a little ball for taking off and putting big type on.

Mr. WYMAN. The big type is not that big on the IBM ball.

The mechanical equipment typewriters, however, are not presently available to the electrical equipment account and are not changeable to it?

Mr. JENNINGS. No. I may have those. All you have to do is request it. Mr. CASEY. But it would have to be purchased from the stationary

room.

Mr. JENNINGS. No, sir. We will purchase manual equipment through the office equipment appropriation and assign it to you. Mr. CASEY. I am glad to know that.

Mr. JENNINGS. No limitation on manual.

Mr. CASEY. The folding room, is this under you?

Mr. JENNINGS. No, sir. This is under the Doorkeeper.

Mr. CASEY. Therefore, the miscellaneous items at page 30 here, that refers to the Clerk's Office setting up 32 various categories, item 13, folding room materials and equipment, showing fiscal year 1966 appropriation of $57,000, this is something

Mr. JENNINGS. That particular part of it is the request for the material. We requisition and pay for it, but the operation and personnel per se are under the Doorkeeper.

Mr. CASEY. Where is the figure for the request with respect to this particular item for fiscal year 1968?

Mr. JENNINGS. In the miscellaneous.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. It is all part of the miscellaneous item account. Mr. JENNINGS. It is under miscellaneous.

Mr. CASEY. Someone somewhere has a breakdown of how much? Mr. JENNINGS. Just by expenditure only.

Mr. CASEY. There is not going to be any increase then in the allocations to the folding room?

Mr. JENNINGS. I imagine it will be increased.

Mr. ANDREWS. We will get to that later. We are going through this item by item.

Mr. CASEY. That is all.

PRINTING

Mr. YATES. I do not see any printing account that you have requested.

Do you have no occasion to spend money for printing?

Mr. JENNINGS. Yes. That is all charged to special printing and binding or it is charged into the miscellaneous account.

Mr. YATES. Does the GPO do all of your printing for you?

Mr. JENNINGS. They do not do all of the printing.

You have in the budget here two printshop people, minority and majority printshops.

Mr. ANDREWS. Let's take up this matter at 2 o'clock.

AFTERNOON SESSION

Mr. ANDREWS. The committee will come to order.
Mr. Yates was questioning the Clerk.

HOUSE RULE ON RETAINING COPIES OF DOCUMENTS

Mr. JENNINGS. The question was asked about the number of documents we kept and I said we retain two copies. That is under the rules of the House.

Mr. YATES. Which rule of the House is that?

Mr. JENNINGS. It is found on page 313 of the House Rules and Manual, 90th Congress.

Mr. YATES. Will you read it into the record.

Mr. JENNINGS. Paragraph 3 under section 641, the Clerk's duty as to Journal and documents:

He shall note all questions of order, with the decisions thereon, the record of which shall be printed as an appendix to the Journal of each session; and complete, as soon after the close of the session as possible, the printing and distribution to Members and Delegates of the Journal of the House, together with an accurate and complete index; retain in the library at his office, for the use of the Members and officers of the House, and not to be withdrawn therefrom, two copies of all books and printed documents deposited there * * * Mr. YATES. That is the particular provision, it is not? Mr. JENNINGS. Yes.

Mr. YATES. Who deposits those books and documents?

Mr. JENNINGS. We are responsible for getting them from the Government Printing Office and from the various committees.

Mr. YATES. According to that rule it does not say you are responsible for getting them, it says somebody deposits them with you. Mr. ANDREWS. How do you get them? Are they delivered to you or do you send for them?

Mr. JENNINGS. Very frankly, I do not know.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would have your counsel look into it. Mr. JENNINGS. I certainly shall.

Mr. ANDREWS. This committee does not want you to clutter up your office with documents for which you have no need.

HOUSE RULE RELATING TO DOORKEEPER'S DUTIES

Mr. YATES. No use at all, that is right. This was part of rule III respecting the duties of the Clerk and as I read this rule I would. think he would be in charge of almost all the documents. Then we turn to the duties of the Doorkeeper, that is rule V, and subsection 2 says:

At the commencement and close of each session of Congress he shall take an invenory of all the furniture, books, and other public property in the several committee and other rooms under his charge, and report the same to the House, which report shall be referred to the Committee on House Administration to ascertain and determine the amount for which he shall be held liable for missing articles.

From this it seems to me that the Doorkeeper is responsible for taking care of the furniture at least in committee rooms. Is that correct? Do you consider you have responsibility for the furniture at the present time? That is rule V at the bottom of the page.

Mr. JENNINGS. Well, I think this is the part pertaining to that—

At the commencement and close of each session of Congress he shall take an inventory of all the furniture, books, and other public property in the several committee and other rooms under his charge * * *

Mr. YATES. What committee rooms are under his charge?
Mr. JENNINGS. I do not know.

Mr. ANDREWS. What are they, Mr. Doorkeeper?

Mr. MILLER. I think that rule is antiquated.

Mr. ANDREWS. There is no question about that.

Mr. YATES. These are the rules of the 90th Congress.

Mr. MILLER. The present Doorkeeper, who has been on Capitol Hill for 35 years, has never had to do that.

Mr. YATES. You mean you are not complying with the rules? Mr. MILLER. I comply with the rules that are up to date but not with those that are antiquated, no, sir.

Mr. YATES. Those are the rules of the 90th Congress. Are you saying the Clerk is responsible for the furniture?

Mr. MILLER. The Office of the Doorkeeper is a title that was created in the first session of the First Congress in April 1789 wherein Congress saw fit in its wisdom to create such a job to take care of the chores around the immediate floor at that time, and that is when they put in that rule to do these things. There was a Doorkeeper and an Assistant Doorkeeper. It should be brought to the attention of the Parliamentarian.

Mr. YATES. What you are saying is that the rule is not being complied with?

Mr. MILLER. That is what I am saying, yes, sir.

Mr. YATES. And the Clerk considers you are responsible?

Mr. MILLER. He is my senior officer.

Mr. YATES. I was under the impression the House of Representatives ran according to the rules it adopted. Under what authority or under what rule are you required to be responsible for the furniture?

Mr. JENNINGS. That is a good question. I will try to find out. It is just one of those responsibilities that I inherited. There is a decision or a rule handed down by the Building Commission that the furnishing of new buildings would be the responsibility of the Architect's Office and that the refinishing and custodial and accountability would be under the Clerk of the House.

DUTIES OF THE CLERK

Mr. YATES. Subsection 3 of rule III respecting the duties of the Clerk says this:

He shall attest and affix the seal of the House to all writs, warrants, and subpenas issued by order of the House, certify to the passage of all bills and joint resolutions, make or approve all contracts, bargains, or agreements relative to furnishing any matter or thing, or for the performance of any labor for the House of Representatives.

It seems to me this is a catchall phrase which gives you the entire responsibility for the operation of the House so far as contracting is concerned.

Mr. JENNINGS. Apparently that is antiquated too.

Mr. YATES. You mean it is not happening?

Mr. JENNINGS. Of course not.

Mr. YATES. In what way is it not happening?

Mr. JENNINGS. Most of the housekeeping comes under the Architect and the Doorkeeper.

Mr. YATES. Do they make contracts "relative to furnishing any matter or thing, or for the performance of any labor for the House of Representatives"?

Mr. JENNINGS. They do for the performance of labor but they do not make the contracts. We make the contracts and pay the billsother than those handled by the Architect.

Mr. ANDREWS. For furniture, et cetera of the whole Capitol and office buildings on the House side?

Mr. JENNINGS. On the House side with the exception that the Building Commission recommended in the Rayburn Building the Architect would design, purchase, and supervise the installation of the furniture in the new Rayburn Building. I believe that carried through for the east front of the Capitol, but I am not sure.

Mr. ANDREWs. Would it be too much for you to submit for the record a list in numerical order, 1, 2, 3, the duties imposed upon you as Clerk and cite in each instance the authority under which you act. In this particular case we are talking about now you are custodian of the furniture in the House Office Buildings. Cite the page and line of the document which gives you that authority.

Mr. JENNINGS. Mr. Chairman, I will be delighted to attempt to do that and we have attempted in every case where a question comes up of this nature. I have turned to my legal counsel and asked by what authority we do that.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would list that for the record.

Mr. JENNINGS. I ask Mr. Livingston, the Disbursement Officer, and others to find out why we are doing things. Quite frankly, the answer most often is, "we have always done it that way."

Mr. ANDREWS. Are you telling us that in addition to rules, regulations, and laws, that you are governed by customs, traditions, habits, and practices?

Mr. YATES. Which may be in conflict with the rules.

Mr. ANDREWs. Yes, which may be in conflict with the rules. What this committee is trying to do is find out what authority you have and by what authority you act.

Mr. JENNINGS. I shall make an attempt to find out and submit it for the record.

Mr. LIVINGSTON. The same question on the jurisdiction of furniture was raised by this committee 3 years ago.

Mr. ANDREWS. You have a fresh young man, a smart general counsel on your staff.

Mr. JENNINGS. I share that view.

Mr. ANDREWS. And I think for your own protection you should have some record made of just what your authority is.

Mr. JENNINGS. Mr. Chairman, I quite well agree and I am trying to do just that. As a matter of fact, as I explained to you this morning, this is how we got into part of this library deal. He is now researching that question. About 27 years ago, I believe, he found that the same recommendations I made this morning were made at that time on the Reorganization Act about the library.