The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me the question that confronts us was pretty well expressed by Mr. Lanham a moment ago. Mr. McCarl contends, as I understand him, that there has in fact been no action taken by the Personnel Classification Board in determining the value of these various allowances at St. Elizabeths, such as subsistence, quarters, and that sort of thing. He also contends that the law requires either the head of the department or the Classification Board to determine the value of such allowances and deduct that from their basic salary. Now, then, if I understand it correctly, he has permitted the salary vouchers to go through and has allowed them to be paid up until this time; but unless Congress acts, he is not from this time on going to permit them to go through without first making deductions for quarters and subsistence. The hospital superintendent and Mr. Sanger take the position that the Personnel Classification Board has already found that the hazardous and unpleasant character of the employment at St. Elizabeths and the fact that the employees must be on duty for 24 hours, offset those accommodations and that they should not be considered at all; that they have no value. That is the position they take. Now the only way you can comply with the law, as I see it, is to have those allowances valued in the future; because the law does not provide they may be offset by considering extra hazards, and that sort of thing. Either the employees at St. Elizabeths will have to accept a salary in cash less the allowances they are receiving, by having deducted from the salary the value of the accommodations, or Congress will have to exempt this institution by appropriate legislation.

Mr. LANHAM. There certainly is no jurisdiction under the Classification Board. It has to be something done by law or this will happen, won't it?

The CHAIRMAN. It will happen, yes; the comptroller will cut the salary down.

Mr. SCHAFER. As a suggestion, I think one of the things that confronts this committee is to call in the representatives of the Veterans' Bureau, the National Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers, and get together on general legislation providing a certain amount for allowance for quarters when living on the grounds and a certain amount for subsistence, and not to make fish out of one and fowl out of the other, and to go along the same line as the allowance that is made in the case of the Navy.

The CHAIRMAN. I have just finished going through the Field Service of the Department of the Interior relating to Indian matters. In that service, the cash value of housing accommodations and subsistence have been determined and deductions made against the salary of employees. The same thing has been done in the National Park Service and, as a matter of fact, the law has been carried out generally throughout the services.

Mr. SCHAFER. I realize in all these Government hospitals those allowances should be made for subsistence and for quarters, just like we do for the Navy, where they are regulated by certain definite, specific amounts; but I believe the law should be written to provide for those allowances before they are given, and they should apply to all hospitals alike.

Mr. LANHAM. Let me make this suggestion: I think we all have in mind what the problem is here, more or less. For my part, I should like to see and read these various documents that have been submitted here this morning and those which the comptroller is going to submit on the requests of Mr. Schafer and Mr. Dallinger. I should like to make the suggestion that we have the testimony and these various documents printed, so that they may be available to the committee and we may look them over and then continue the hearing as to what would be necessary.

The CHAIRMAN. I have been wondering whether it would be possible to attempt to conduct this hearing as a full committee. It is going to be hard to maintain a quorum if the hearings should become protracted.

Mr. LANHAM. It seems to me what hearings we hold will depend largely upon our conclusion as to what we need.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is true. Suppose we defer further action until we have had an opportunity to study the record.

Mr. SANGER. I would like to make one suggestion which Doctor White did not touch on, which seemed to be of interest-the number of employees he has.

The CHAIRMAN. Let him supply that to the committee. Is not that supplied in the document marked "Exhibit A"?

Mr. SANGER. Not that part of it. This is the personal employees chargeable to the men.

The CHAIRMAN. Let the doctor supply such additional information as he desires, and we will put it in the hearing.

Mr. SCHAFER. I think we ought to have a list of all the employees supplied with quarters and subsistence, the amount per year of subsistence and the number of servants. Perhaps there are a number of doctors down there now with two or three or four servants.

The CHAIRMAN. I have here, Mr. Schafer, a list, Exhibit A, which gives the names of the various employees of the hospital and what they are furnished with, except it does not go into the matter of stating whether or not they are provided with servants. I presume the matter of servants is largely incorporated in subsistence.

Mr. DALLINGER. Are there any items that the comptroller has refused to approve except Doctor White's?

Mr. SANGER. If I might answer that he has not refused to approve any; he has merely questioned the feasibility of passing further accounts without deductions of those items and he cites Doctor White as an example of one of those, with a full list of him. In the comptroller's report to this Congress, in 1926, he set out a full list of all employees who lived at the hospital and just what each one received, including Doctor White. He had that knowledge and furnished the information to Congress.

Mr. DALLINGER. What I was trying to find out is in the case of what bills is payment being held up.

Doctor WHITE. None of them.

The CHAIRMAN. None at the present time?

Doctor WHITE. He is not holding up any of them.

The CHAIRMAN. But the comptroller has, in effect, served notice that unless this matter is taken care of by Congress, he will hold them up in the future.

Mr. O'BRIEN. Has that report been printed?

Mr. SANGER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Was this report, Exhibit A, prepared by the comptroller?

Mr. SANGER. It was prepared by the hospital and submitted to the Classification Board-submitted about a year before the comptroller raised the question. We submitted it to the department and asked if there has been any change in his original decision about deductions.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the report Exhibit A?

Mr. SANGER. Yes, sir.

Mr. LANHAM. I suggest that we have this testimony and the documents printed as soon as we can, in order to get them available as soon as possible. Personally, I should like to look them over.

Mr. SCHAFER. In view of the fact the comptroller has made an extensive investigation into the operation of St. Elizabeths Hospital, particularly the expenditures, do you not think this committee ought to be furnished with all of the facts revealed by that investigation? I notice an extension of remarks in the Congressional Record of May 29, 1928, by our colleague, Mr. Hammer, in which he directs attention to some very illuminating facts concerning the excessive amount expended for coal in that institution.

Mr. LANHAM. May I say, Mr. Schafer, my suggestion was that we have before us in black and white not only the testimony but the documents that have been submitted here, and look them over and see what they contain; because many of them have not even been read. Then we can determine from that just what we do want to get.

The CHAIRMAN. That is my thought, that we do not discontinue the hearings, but suspend here so that we may have the testimony and documents offered printed and made available to the committee. I have read all of these documents during the past week, and I appreciate the fact they ought to be read by every member of this committee before we proceed further.

Mr. SCHAFER. Well, this document shows there are other doctors that have servants, in addition to drawing their amount for food? Will that report show that?

The CHAIRMAN. Here is what the report Exhibit A shows, for instance, in the case of Dr. William A. White, and the rest are along the same line

Mr. SCHAFER. I have that here. I want to know whether any other doctors have been allowed servants.

The CHAIRMAN. Here is Arthur P. Noyes, first assistant physician, who is furnished a 6-room-and-bath house and he is allowed subsistence, laundry, maid service, heat, electric service, garage space for two cars, and so on. Then here is John E. Lind, medical officer, in the P-5 division, salary $5,000, furnished with a 6-room-and-bath house, laundry, heat, electric service, patient help as needed. Now it sets it out in that manner all the way through.

Mr. SCHAFER. It does not show us, if there have been housekeepers, the amount those men receive, and if they have men servants, we want to know how many, and the housekeepers.

The CHAIRMAN. No; it does not show that.

Mr. SCHAFER. It seems the comptroller's opinion made reference concerning additional allowances for the superintendent.

Mr. SANGER. I may say the only one who has any paid help service is Doctor Noyes, who has a maid part of the day.

Mr. SCHAFER. The rest of them do not have housekeepers, waitresses, assistant cooks, and cooks?

Mr. SANGER. No.

The CHAIRMAN. We will stand adjourned subject to the call of the chairman.

(The committee thereupon adjourned subject to the call of the chairman.)

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON

EXPENDITURES IN THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS,

Wednesday, February 27, 1929. The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Godfrey G. Goodwin presiding.

I

Mr. GOODWIN. The committee will please come to order. As I understand it, the purpose of the hearing before this subcommittee is to make a further inquiry with reference to the maintenance and allowance for subsistence, quarters and domestic help for the superintendent of St. Elizabeths Hospital, in order to determine whether the subsistence and maintenance that have been received by the superintendent in connection with his living quarters are in accordance with the provisions of law pertaining to that institution. think the committee will recollect that the Comptroller General, Mr. McCarl, appeared before this Committee, and from his report and the letters that passed between his office and that of the Secretary of the Interior, under whose authority the hospital in question is operated, there is a serious question whether the allowances and the subsistence received by the Superintendent of St. Elizabeths Hospital are entirely in accordance with the provisions of law.

Doctor White is present this morning, and there are other witnesses appearing before the committee, who have some knowledge of the operation of other hospitals under Government control, in the several departments of the Government, including the United States Veterans Bureau and the Navy hospitals. I think there are some others here representing other institutions of a similar character. The committee felt that it ought to call upon Doctor White to make his explanation first, in order that we may have a clear understanding of it. Mr. SCHAFER. I believe that Doctor White should be called for a brief time to explain why St. Elizabeths Hospital should be singled out and granted the allowances which have been made, when all the other Government hospitals, according to the statistics filed by the Comptroller General, have no such allowances.

Mr. LETTS. Are there witnesses here who will endeavor to show that some of these expenditures or allowances are not in line with existing law?

Mr. GOODWIN. I can not say that, Mr. Letts. It is my understanding that the witnesses who are here are called for the purpose of testifying as to the allowances and subsistence provided by the Government under the law, or under existing law, in the operation of other institutions that may be either similar to this institution or bordering on similarity to St. Elizabeths.

Mr. SCHAFER. I will add this, that from my own personal viewpoint, I am satisfied that the testimony presented to the committee up to this time, particularly that presented by Comptroller General McCarl, indicates that these expenditures have not been authorized by law. A further indication that they have not been authorized is the fact that the Appropriations Committee assumed to put legislation on an appropriation bill to legalize the expenditures, if you please, which legislation, under the rules of the House, was rightfully stricken out on a point of order. Then the Senate put on a legalizing provision, indicating that they also must have realized that the expenditures had not been made according to law.

Then the matter came to conference, with the amendment to the Senate amendment that was submitted by Mr. Crampton to legalize the expenditures of a certain kind, pending a determination by the Personnel Classification Board. I do not think that we need any further discussion to indicate that these expenditures have been illegal, but I think that this committee should consider the broad features of the matter. If there should be legislation to legalize these expenditures at St. Elizabeths; we should also consider the question of legalizing similar expenditures, or some of them, in other Government institutions, or in other Government hospitals.

Mr. GOODWIN. With that understanding, we will call upon Doctor White to make a statement with reference to the items of allowances and subsistence in the operation of St. Elizabeths Hospital.

STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIAM A. WHITE, SUPERINTENDENT, ST. ELIZABETHS' HOSPITAL, ACCOMPANIED BY MONIE SANGER, ASSISTANT TO THE SUPERINTENDENT

(Digest of testimony given by Dr. William A. White on February 27, 1928.)

Expenditures for the maintenance of the office of the superintendent at St. Elizabeths Hospital were precisely as they exist to-day when Doctor White came there under a civil-service appointment in 1903. The servants and other emoluments of the office are a part of his contract with the Government. Congress enacted a law in 1920 specifically authorizing these allowances.

The superintendent is required by statute to live in the quarters provided. The office demands 24-hour service and there is extra hazard, as is testified by the fact that the superintendent is under threat of his life just at present. For these reaons the Personnel Classification Board ruled that the quarters of the superintendent should not have any value at all in the computation of his salary. Reviewing the laws under which the institution operates reveals no hiatus anywhere.

The superintendents of other Government hospitals should have similar allowances, although from the standpoint of autonomy they are not comparable with St. Elizabeths. The deduction of allowances from the pay of Veterans' Bureau hospital officers is a vicious practice and the patients are the ones who suffer.

It has been one of Doctor White's dreams to make St. Elizabeths a central institution for the training of psychiatrists, who are sorely needed in this country. He is tremendously interested that the Congress does not deal the institution a blow which would interfere with its future progress along this line. He does not want to see allowances which will attract the right sort of men removed. However, maintenance is not all or he would not be there.

The lunacy legislation of the District of Columbia belongs to the Dark Ages. It is miserable legislation and it ought to be changed very

1 During statement of the following witness.