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but I did make a calculation a few years ago in terms of our internal administration in the cost of operating the department of education. At that time, it was requiring a little over 50 percent of the operational cost of the department of education to administer the Federal programs that we are getting money for. As you well know, we put in many more State dollars into the operation of the schools than the Federal dollar amounts do in our State.
In fact, I think now the Federal dollar represents about $140 million and our State and local dollars combined, runs up to something like $900 million to $1 billion.
Congressman LEVITAS. I wonder if we could keep the record open to receive that information, because I think it would underscore the burden that is placed on the local taxpayer to comply with these requirements imposed by the Federal Government.
Dr. Nix. We will make an effort to get you a figure.
Senator Nunn. We will keep the record open and add it to the record.
[The material referred to follows:]
I certainly appreciate the honor of appearing before the Government
The question of the desirability of a cabinet level Department for
Other educators and I across the Nation will appreciate any change you
At the hearings of the Senate Subcommittee on Oversight Procedures held
If one assumes that each of the 188 school systems in Georgia spends only
Thank you for your concern over the administration of educational programs in the Nation, and the seemingly growing insatiability of information needs of the federal government. I am very pleased that Georgia has contributed Congressional leadership and efforts toward curbing the increasing demands of the ederal bureaucracy.
With warm personal regards, I am
Jack P. Nix
Congressman LEVITAS. This model that you referred to, I believe, title I, and could require over 30 million items of data.
What type of data are you talking about?
Dr. Nix. This relates, Congressman Levitas, just to reading and mathematics. It does not relate to all of the things. It relates to the number of children, their section, the number of classes they are in, the teachers, things of that nature, where they are, where they are in one level of reading or another level of math, if you move them one level.
Congressman LEVITAS. We have had some experiences in cur Governmental Operations Committee in the House for agencies which have required substantial recordkeeping, information to be furnished at significant costs and in going back over to determine what they did with that information I have learned that they have actually taken it and warehoused it and nobody has ever looked at it. The IRS is a good example of that.
Dr. Nıx. Let me say this. It seems to me like that, say, Dr. Crim. here in the city of Atlanta Board of Education would certainlv know more about what type of administration it would take to serve the disadvantaged or handicapped child here at the John F. Kennedy Center than someone sitting behind a desk in Washington would know.
Congressman LEVITAS. I think there is no quarrel with that. I might mention one other thing, interestingly, following on Senator Nunn's mention that the Commissioner Bell was administering what!
Senator Nunn. It was something like a 400 percent increase in the number of individual programs from 37 that he had to administer in the Office of Education.
Congressman LEVITAS. We recently concluded a hearing and issued the first in a series of reports by HEW and one of the first questions we asked the Assistant Secretary, Mr. Otina, I believe it was, how many programs does HEW administer and he said, he was not sure, but gave us a figure, I believe 320. A few weeks later, another witness on from HEW, at the same level, and asked him the same question and he was not sure but he thought it was 261. Five months later, we asked Mr. Otina and he came up with the figure of 287, if I remember correctly. HEW does not have a log on how many programs they are adıninistering, much less what the implications are in terms of what it is costing people to comply.
Dr. Nix. Let me make this comment, Congressman Levitas, concerning fragmentation and specificity, not only in recordkeeping but in the proliferation of programs.
I think we have gotten to the point where the Federal programs are being so fragmented, that in many cases, when parents of children in a local community get concerned about something not happening out there in that school, it is too easy for the teachers and the principals to say that the State will not let me or the Federal Government will not let me do that. We need to, somehow, keep in mind that the responsibility and authority ought to be as close to the child as we can get it and then we can really get a handle on this business of accountability.
Senator Nunn. Doctor Nix, we talked about this very briefly but we made some progress on the idea recently. I have been entertaining