Senator HARRISON. He thought he had improved it?

Mr. BROSSARD. He thought he had improved it. I said to him, "Why did you put the word 'greatly in there?" He replied, "I think the word greatly' should be in there, because the facts warrant it."

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. BROSSARD. He said, "68 per cent of the increase being on agricultural products, the word 'greatly' should be in there." I said, "Well, when you take that report to Commissioner Dennis I want you to call his attention to the fact that that first sentence has been revised like that." Conrad took the report, because I did not want to be responsible for it alone, or solely-although it would have been perfectly all right from my point of view. I thought it

was correct.

Senator HARRISON. You noticed that when you said Mr. Conrad said the word "greatly" ought to be in there that the chairman of the committee, from your State, said, "Certainly"; and the gentleman from California here nods his head vigorously.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. When you said 68 per cent, of course, you took into consideration that we have 7 cents on long-staple cotton, largely due to the masterly support of that proposition by the Senator from Mississippi.

Senator HARRISON. Are you for that?

Mr. BROSSARD. Am I for it?

Senator HARRISON. Have you any opinion on that proposition? Mr. BROSSARD. The experts came to me before they came over to advise with you about it, Senator, to ask me what I thought about it. Senator HARRISON. What did you tell them?

Mr. BROSSARD. I said I thought the rate of duty on long-staple cotton would be about as effective as the rate of duty on hard spring wheat; that we had about the same situation in cotton as we did with respect to spring wheat, and that I thought it would help the cotton growers in the United States, especially the growers of longstaple cotton. Mr. Lowry then came to the committee and made his statement.

Senator HARRISON. I hope you will ascertain the facts, and if the facts warrant a duty on it, I hope you will leave it; and if they do not, I hope you will take it off.

Mr. BROSSARD. The commission will ascertain the facts, all right, and report them as they are.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Have you a report before your commission now on that?

Mr. BROSSARD. I do not think so.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I hope you will bear in mind what it costs to raise cotton in Egypt, as compared with Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Mississippi, and California.

Senator COUZENS. I object to this intimidation of the commissioners here.

Mr. BROSSARD. I would like to finish this statement of mine about the press release. After Mr. Conrad left my office, he took the statement with him, and the next morning brought it back to my desk. Senator SHORTRIDGE. What is the materiality of all this?

Mr. BROSSARD (continuing). With this statement upon it from Commissioner Dennis:

This is a good piece of work and should stand as written, but would it not be well to turn out a briefer and more newsy story that might have a run in the more popular papers?

Senator HARRISON. That was the notation put there by Docter Dennis?

Mr. BROSSARD. That was the notation put there by Doctor Dennis. Senator LA FOLLETTE. Was that on the original draft?

Mr. BROSSARD. That was on the draft as sent to the press.

Senator HARRISON. Let us get that straight. You heard Doctor Dennis's testimony this morning?

Mr. BROSSARD. Yes.

Senator HARRISON. In which he said that the first draft that came to him, which is in there, did not say that agriculture would be greatly benefited by this act.

Mr. BROSSARD. That is right. I do not know whether he saw this statement [indicating] at all or not.

Senator HARRISON. Did he put his notation on that draft, or did he put it on the second draft, that stated that agriculture will be greatly benefited?

Mr. BROSSARD. His note was appended to the statement which said, "Agriculture will be greatly benefited by the new tariff bill." The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Dennis may not have read it carefully. Mr. BROSSARD. He may not have read this carefully.

Senator HARRISON. Did you discuss it with Doctor Dennis? Mr. BROSSARD. No, sir. I will tell you what happened. I asked Mr. Conrad, even after he had come back, whether or not Mr. Dennis had seen the report, and he said he had it something like three or four hours, and this is the memorandum appended in his handwriting, and it is attached to the document as indicated.

Senator COUZENS. Can you understand, then, why he should say that he wanted to do penance for that statement after attaching that note?

Mr. BROSSARD. Yes; I will tell you why I think Doctor Dennis wanted to make the statement. I think that Doctor Dennis saw this draft indicating], the original draft, that did not have that statement in there. I did not know that Conrad had submitted it to him beforehand, and Doctor Dennis read it over, and when it came back to him for signature, he probably thought it was just the same as it was in the original draft.

Senator HARRISON. That is what Doctor Dennis stated.
The CHAIRMAN. That is what he testified.

Mr. BROSSARD. That is what he has testified to here. In the meantime, I did not know that it had ever been submitted to Doctor Dennis, but Conrad submitted the statement to me and I revised the statement and asked him to pay particular attention to see that it was called to Doctor Dennis's attention. So he went back with this statement to Doctor Dennis, and I presume he did not get to see Doctor Dennis at all, from his testimony this morning. Conrad probably did not get to see Doctor Dennis to tell him specifically that I had revised this first sentence, but I had asked Conrad to see that Doctor Dennis saw this first sentence. Then, when the state

ment came back with Doctor Dennis's note appended, I thought, of course, he had seen the whole thing.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that Doctor Dennis's testimony this morning was just exactly as he knew it to be.

Mr. BROSSARD. I am sure it is, and I want to say, too, that I think Doctor Dennis testified exactly to the facts as I have stated them here now.

Senator HARRISON. Why did not Mr. Conrad call to the attention of Doctor Dennis such an important and substantial alteration of the original draft?

Mr. BROSSARD. I do not know.

Senator HARRISON. You instructed him to do it?

Mr. BROSSARD. Yes.

Senator HARRISON. Did you ever call him for not doing it, when you found out he had not done it?

Mr. BROSSARD. I did not find out he had not done it until just now, when Doctor Dennis testified.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Harrison, do you think there is any difference between "greatly," and just leaving it with the statement with regard to the 68 per cent?

Senator HARRISON. It makes all the difference in the world in it, and the witness himself said he wanted to draw it to the attention of the country because it was more forcible.

Mr. BROSSARD. No, Senator. I am glad you expressed your interpretation of what I said, because it will give me a chance to correct it. What I said was, and what I intended, was not to draw it to the attention of the public because it was more forcible, but I was anxious to have this statement expressed clearly, in understandable language, what I thought the report showed.

Senator HARRISON. You wanted to put it over, in other words? Mr. BROSSARD. Yes. What is the use of preparing press releases if the papers will not print them?

Senator HARRISON. That is why you put in it, "Agriculture will be benefited."

Mr. BROSSARD. Yes.

Senator HARRISON. And when the publicity man came back and said, "Agriculture will be greatly benefited," you thought that was better?

Mr. BROSSARD. I was a little bit reticent about including it, because I would rather have included the conservative statement, but I was relying on Doctor Dennis catching it if he thought it would be unusual.

Senator HARRISON. Has the matter ever been discussed with Mr. Conrad, as to why he did not bring it to the attention of Doctor Dennis when he carried the second draft back there, having been instructed by you to bring it to his attention?

Mr. BROSSARD. No. You see, I did not know until this morning that Doctor Dennis thought he was signing the original draft.

Senator HARRISON. With all the discussions in the Senate and in the country with reference to this draft, and the criticism of the commission about issuing it, you and Doctor Dennis never have had any discussion about the matter?

Mr. BROSSARD. Yes, we have.

Senator HARRISON. Had you ever informed Doctor Dennis, before now, that you had given those instructions to Mr. Conrad? Mr. BROSSARD. To revise it?

Senator HARRISON. That you had drawn, yourself, that second draft, and that Mr. Conrad had added to your draft, and so forth. Mr. BROSSARD. I do not remember whether I had told Doctor Dennis this detail, or not, about Conrad adding that.

Senator HARRISON. Do you not think it would have been proper, Mr. Chairman, to have called his attention to it, in view of the fact that you and he were the committee on publicity to issue these statements for the commission?

Mr. BROSSARD. Maybe I should have done it. If I should, I am at fault.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Mr. Chairman, may I ask Doctor Dennis just a question? In response to a question this morning, Doctor, you cited the case of a tariff duty on one of the poultry products, which seemed to minimize the importance of the duties laid on those products. The act here fixes a certain duty on dried, powdered, and frozen eggs, as you know.

Mr. DENNIS. Yes.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. You just mentioned pickled eggs, and seemed to minimize the importance of that.

Mr. DENNIS. No. I mentioned eggs in the shell, of which the imports are pretty nearly infinitesimal.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. But, as to dried, powdered, and frozen

eggs

Mr. DENNIS. I had nothing to say about dried eggs or frozen eggs. They come in great volume into this country.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. From China?

Mr. DENNIS. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. That is one of the items, Senator, that everybody knew, as far as that is concerned, would not be affected. Everybody knew that the importation of that item would not be affected in the least.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Which item?

The CHAIRMAN. The rate to be put upon eggs in the shell takes into consideration the past experience we have had in the importation of eggs from China, but they wanted to take a regular rate, beginning with eggs in the shell, and, step by step, increase the rate on the eggs, from the shell until they got dried, or in whatever situation they were. That is why it was put there.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Exactly. One other question. Has your attention, as a commissioner, been called to the fact that importers are trying to circumvent and defeat the present law in respect to the duty on imported sugar, by mixing it with water?

Mr. DENNIS. I certainly have; but only from what I have read in the newspapers. I think the Treasury has attended to that matter. Senator SHORTRIDGE. That is contrary to the law, is it not, according to your conception?

Mr. DENNIS. It has not been brought officially to the attention of our commission.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. It has not?

Mr. DENNIS. No; it has not, so far as I know.

The CHAIRMAN. There is no necessity of it, Senator. It had to be settled with the Treasury Department first.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Precisely.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, they put water in it until it was less than 50 per cent, and then it comes in as a sirup, and it was about one-fortieth of a cent a pound.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Precisely. Would you venture an opinion as to whether that was permissible under the law?

Mr. DENNIS. Under the law the Tariff Commission does have jurisdiction over unfair trade practices.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Precisely.

Mr. DENNIS. The law was invoked in the case of synthetic phenolic resin. The case was pushed through, and we gave a decision. It was contested in the court, and the court upheld the Tariff Commission. Until somebody who is aggrieved brings a case on the melted sugar in water to the attention of the commission, we have not much ground for jurisdiction, particularly as the Treasury Department. took a hand in the case and stopped it, as I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; they did.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. I just wanted to bring out the fact that the Treasury Department has taken the attitude that that is contrary to the law, and have stopped it.

Mr. DENNIS. It was an improper trade practice.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. That was a method of evading the tariff on

sugar.

The CHAIRMAN. In my opinion, the wording of the law ought to be changed, however.

Senator HARRISON. I think it ought to be changed to stop those people in Pennsylvania who are bringing in a lot of water, mixed with sugar, but I do not think you ought to use that in order to keep out some people who are really bringing in sirup. If it is used for sirup, it ought to come under the sirup provision. If it is brought in to be used for sugar, it ought to come under the sugarprovision, and the law ought to be changed accordingly.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Under the decisions of the Supreme Court, I think the Treasury Department is perfectly right in its ruling with reference to this particular matter.

Let me ask you in regard to oil. Has your attention been called, or has the commission, on its own motion, taken up for consideration, the question of a tariff duty on crude petroleum?

Mr. DENNIS. We are reporting to Congress, under a congressional order, the facts of competition between domestic oil and Maracaibo oil. That report will be ready within a very short time. The CHAIRMAN. We have no power to put a duty on it.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. No; but I am asking whether they had acted. There was a resolution passed, I think, was there not, Doctor? Mr. DENNIS. We are acting under congressional resolution. Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. It is in the bill itself.

Senator SHORTRIDGE. Yes; when you have an investigation and a report.

Mr. DENNIS. But it is not a matter involving a change of duty. We have no jurisdiction to change the duty, because the oil is on the free list.