Under the Monroe Doctrine, I presume we might become obligated to defend everything from the North Pole to the South Pole. Is this a plan to defend the countries south of the Panama Canal and as far north as Greenland, all the territory in the Western Hemisphere? Is that your understanding of the situation? If our defense is to extend from the Arctic to the Torrid Zone there would obviously be quite a variation in our defense requirements.

Secretary KNOx. Of course, in answering your question I cannot speak for the whole administration. I can give you my personal view. If modern warfare has taught us anything, it is the increasing importance of our arming and the necessity of preventing a possible enemy getting any air bases within striking distance of our own country, and that goes for submarine and surface operations as well.

Since we have indicated our intention of enforcing the Monroe Doctrine, the only kind of defense which can be hoped to be successful in a major war would be hemisphere defense.

The CHAIRMAN. In connection with the South American countries, are we going to run up against any snags?

Secretary KNOx. Some diffculties, but I do not believe there will be any insurmountable difficulties.

I spent most of winter before last in South America in order to inform myself, because I thought we would come to a period when South America would mean a lot more to us than it ever had before. I saw and talked to a good many people, officials and otherwise, down there.

Outside of the Argentine, which has a peculiar economic problem which we ought to understand, I believe every other nation down there is keen to cooperate with us. Brazil is as close to us in an economic sense as any one nation can be to another.

I talked to the President of Brazil. There is every possible desire on their part to cooperate with us. Argentina is most developed. but unfortunately her major products are in competition with ours. such as beef and grain; their natural market is in Europe, and I myself can understand why she is naturally a little reluctant. I think a sympathetic understanding of the Argentine is very essential.

Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Secretary, we are appropriating colossal sums of money for national defense. My idea was to develop what information you have as to what the coordinated plan of national defense is. I understand you think it should be meant to cover the hemisphere under our obligations under the Monroe Doctrine. In other words, it should be hemisphere defense. Secretary KNOX. Yes.

PRESENT AND PROPOSED NUMBER OF COMBAT PLANES

Mr. LUDLOW. I would like to call your attention to an extract from the New York Herald Tribune of yesterday, quoting a report of the national emergency committee of the Military Training Camps Association of the United States. It says:

Of the Army's 2,422 airplanes, about 1,600 are combat planes, the pamphlet said. A slightly higher ratio of the Navy's complement of 1,765 planes is ready for combat duty, giving the Nation 2,500 aircraft worthy of sending into battie in defense of American cities. The association stated that Germany and Italy were credited with from 30,000 to 40,000 aircraft, including a minimum of 20,000 first-line planes.

I wonder if you could tell me how many planes the Navy has ready for combat purposes.

Admiral STARK. About 1,800 at the present time.

Mr. LUDLOW. What is the goal toward which we are striving?
Admiral STARK. The immediate goal is 10,000.

Mr. LUDLOW. What is the ultimate goal?

Admiral STARK. The ultimate goal will probably be in the neighborhood of 13,000. When I say "ultimate," that is subject to change. Mr. LUDLOW. You think these planes of ours are equal if not superior to the foreign planes?

Admiral STARK. We feel that our new planes are as good, if not better.

Secretary KNOX. I have been talking recently with a young American who felt keenly enough about the war to resign his commission in the Marines, who has been commissioned as an officer in the flying corps of the British Navy, and his story of the superior efficiency of the American planes is very encouraging.

TRAINING OF COLORED PEOPLE FOR NAVAL SERVICE

Mr. LUDLOW. Mr. Secretary, I have received inquiries from some colored friends who have been asking about training of colored people in the Navy and the suggestion was made that provision might be made for training colored men for aviation service and for general naval service in the Virgin Islands. I was wondering if that was in the picture. I understand we have the nucleus of a training activity there.

Secretary KNOx. That goes into the very heart of naval policy, and I have not gone far enough into it to answer the question. Mr. LUDLOW. I would like to have some answer for the record. Secretary KNOX. I might say that no such proposition is being considered at the present time.

Mr. LUDLOW. I have no desire except to be helpful in this matter. A number of colored leaders say the door is closed to them and they cannot enlist in the Navy; that they are not given the opportunity for aviation training; and I was wondering if you could put something in the record that would be reassuring to them. No one disputes the loyalty of Negroes in the conflicts in which our country has engaged.

Admiral STARK. The service is enlisting colored men in the messmen's branch. The messmen's branch is composed largely of Filipinos and colored men, and at the present time no more Filipinos are being enlisted.

Mr. LUDLOW. So that enlistments are open to colored men?
Admiral STARK. Yes; to that extent.

BOMB PROTECTION FOR BATTLESHIPS

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Secretary, with reference to battleships: In the building of these 200 destroyers and battleships are we going to provide different types of battleships, having in view that bombs might affect the present battleships and equip them with tops, we will say, that will be safer than the present ships?

Secretary Knox. I am going to ask Admiral Stark to answer that.

Admiral STARK. That is correct; yes. They will have much greater attention given to resisting bombs than the old battleships have. Everything that we have been constructing in the past few years has taken that into consideration.

Mr. SNYDER. In the older days you just put the armor plate on the sides?

Admiral STARK. While in the older class of ships the sides were given greater protection against projectiles nevertheless we have always had protective decks, covering the vital parts of the ships, magazines and engines.

NEED FOR PRESENT APPROPRIATION REQUESTED

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Mr. Secretary, you had quite a bit of experience in the past war.

Secretary KNOx. In the World War, you mean?

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Yes.

Secretary KNOX. Just a major in the Field Artillery; minor. Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Well, you have kept abreast of the times on the question of preparedness, have you not?

Secretary KNOX. Yes, I think I have; I have been an editor all the time and I have always regarded national defense as a very acute and important question.

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Now from your past experience and from the information you have gathered in the years since the World War do you feel that this committee should make the appropriation that your forces have been asking for?

Secretary KNOX. To the Navy?

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. Yes.
Secretary KNOX. Most emphatically so.

Mr. JOHNSON. Colonel, you feel that this appropriation should be made?

Secretary KNOX. Oh, yes.

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. And do not you think, going one step further, that the sooner the better?

Secretary KNOX. Yes, the sooner the better; right.

The CHAIRMAN. And is not this also true, Mr. Secretary, that no human being can prognosticate what the future requirements may be? Secretary KNOX. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And you cannot put on any limitation that will be good, world without end, to the very end?

Secretary KNOX. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Nobody could tell that 2 months or 6 weeks ago, or even a month ago?

Secretary KNOx. I wish I could answer that question, but I am not able to.

Mr. JOHNSON of West Virginia. One other question: Do you find the Council of National Defense is cooperating with you?

Secretary KNOX. Wholeheartedly, and they are very, very helpful.

EXPENDITURE OF AVAILABLE AND ADDITIONAL PROPOSED APPROPRIATION FOR 1941

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Secretary, I understand that the Congress has made available for the Navy Department, for the present

fiscal year, about $2,100,000,000, which includes contract authorizations. That is correct, is it not?

Secretary KNOX. Approximately, sir, I think.
Admiral STARK. Yes, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. At the time the last appropriation was under consideration, on June 5, I believe, Admiral Stark left the impression with this committee that, if the sum then under consideration was made available for the Navy, the Navy would have all of the funds that it needed or cared to ask for prior to the time when Congress should reconvene in January 1941. Why is it that the billion dollars that is now being requested was not asked for at that time? Secretary KNOX. I do not know, sir.

Mr. WOODRUM. We will ask the admiral that when we get him on, Mr. Wigglesworth. I have that as one of my first questions.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I will ask you this, then, Mr. Secretary: How much of that $2,100,000,000 which Congress has already made available for the Navy Department for the fiscal year 1941 has already been expended?

Secretary KNOx. You mean contracted for and arranged for?
Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Or expended.

Secretary KNOX. Well, I would have to get some figures on that for you, but I think pretty largely it has been distributed to the various projects, and contracts are being made as rapidly as possible. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You do not know the answer to that?

Secretary KNOX. I do not, because only 3 weeks of the year have passed and the returns for July are not yet available.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Can you state to the committee whether or not, in your opinion, the $2,100,000,000 already made available will be expended 100 percent within the present fiscal year?

Secretary KNOx. As nearly as possible is as near as I can answer that. I do not suppose anybody can give you an outright "Yes" or "No" on that.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. In your opinion, will it be spent or will it not be spent, and if it will not be spent, what percentage is it fair to assume will be spent before July 1 next?

Secretary KNOx. Most of it will be spent.

Captain ALLEN. I can put those statements in the record, Mr. Wigglesworth, if you would like. We have 2 more years after the obligation year for expenditures before the balances revert to the Treasury.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I am asking about the present fiscal year.

Captain ALLEN. We obligate this year and expend part of it; then we have 2 more years to expend balances of the money under the law. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. My question is, How much will be spent, in your opinion, in the next 12 months?

Captain ALLEN. $1,746,267,925, as estimated last week.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. And I would like a similar statement for the billion dollars now being requested.

Captain ALLEN. The expenditures against available funds are indicated in line 19 of the following obligation statement for the fiscal year 1941. In addition, it is estimated that about $400,000,000 of the supplemental before you will also be expended this fiscal year.