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tween titles I and III, slum clearance and public housing, and necessarily so. One of the places where the interrelationship is extremely important is in connection with the rehousing requirements of the slum-clearance program as set forth in the act itself. So that where the people who are going to be unhoused are of low income, where it would not otherwise be possible to house them, the provision of slumpublic housing in advance of the clearance under title I becomes important.

So that the gearing in Congress of the two programs will be probably in two phases, one of trying to make provision for the rehousing before slum clearance starts, and then the two being tied together possibly with relation in choice of sites and so forth.

Senator SPARKMAN. With reference to the available facts and figures on home ownership, and the conditions of the houses and so forth, we also wrote into the law a requirement for a census taking in connection with the regular decennial census. Has the Census Bureau consulted with your officials regarding the information to be sought in that?

Mr. FOLEY. The Office of the Administrator representing the total Agency has been sitting in conversations with them on that matter. Senator SPARKMAN. You feel that a satisfactory census program will be worked out?

Mr. FOLEY. I believe so. Of course, one could go on and on and get useful information. There is a limit which must be placed on staff information. But I believe at staff levels they will arrive at a satisfactory basis.

Senator SPARKMAN. Is there a great deal of war housing still under your administration? Oftentimes I think in the minds of the public it is confused with public housing. Could you give us just a word as to where that fits into the program, and what the plans are for disposal of that-war and veterans' reuse housing?

Mr. FOLEY. That has been one of our very complicated problems, Senator, as you know, and we have had frequent discussions with committees of Congress on it, and various hearings and bills are pending with respect to disposition recommendations. It divides itself into three rather broad classes, one is what we call title V. veterans' reuse housing; two is the temporary war housing built under the Lanham Act; and three is the permanent war housing.

They represent three different types of disposition problems: The permanent war housing we are, of course, authorized to sell into private use and are proceeding gradually with some success. Although it was slow, it is speeding up a bit now. It was hampered very much by the housing shortage immediately after the war.

There is a different problem in connection with the temporary war housing, most of which already has been used as long or longer than it was originally planned to be used. And you know the provisions of the law, I do not need to recite them, as to the removal. The time for removal has been extended from time to time by the Congress.

We have made recommendations to Congress for transfer of most of that housing to the local communities, giving them the property under certain conditions, they assuming the responsibility for its ultimate disposition.

Some of that housing, temporary housing, will undoubtedly be of considerable use in connection with the rehousing, housing involved in the slum-clearance projects, if it can be made vacant and available, as no doubt much of it can.

The veterans' reuse housing was subject to two other pieces of law, one the so-called McGregor Act in which it was transferred to educational institutions, and then by language in the appropriations act of last year we were authorized to transfer other of it to cities, with a deadline date for application I think of December 22. As of November 30, applications had been received for approximately 47 percent of it. The reports come to me weekly, and it looks as though the communities will apply for the bulk of that to be transferred, so that our problem will be quite simplified.

You are quite right, however, Senator, in your observation that the war housing confuses the public mind on the public-housing question. I have felt and have recommended to Congress that the sooner the Federal Government can get out of possession and management of the war housing, the better it will be for all concerned.

Senator SPARKMAN. You were proposing to transfer about 135,000 units to the various local-housing authorities?

Mr. FOLEY. Under permanent war housing, no, there are about 135,000 units total in our possession.

Senator SPARKMAN. It was thirty-some-odd-thousand.

Mr. EGAN. That is right.

Mr. FOLEY. The authorization suggested for transfer to low-rent use, the legislation, ran about 30,000.

Mr. RICH. They have authorized it?

Senator SPARKMAN. No; it is proposed.

Mr. FOLEY. It is proposed in pending legislation.

Senator SPARKMAN. There is a bill pending on the calendar.

Mr. RICH. Why do you not get it started early in the Senate? We act on it in a hurry over there.

Senator SPARKMAN. Mr. Foley, I thought you might be interested in seeing the picture and plan of this house. This is a plan of the home to be built with the first loan under the farm-housing-loan program. That is the house that is to be built, replacing this one, a picture of which I show you.

Mr. FOLEY. It is obvious it is not to be a conversion proposition. Senator SPARKMAN. No; you could not very well convert. You may be interested to know that the bid on that house, to build that house, was $3,400. They promised to deliver it-$3,300. They are going to use $100 for the water well.

Mr. FOLEY. Do you think you would have sufficient influence with that contractor to get him to duplicate that in Washington?

Senator SPARKMAN. I wish we could. The loans are for $4,000, $3,300 for the house, $100 for the water system, and $600 for the barn. I have a picture of the barn, too, that they are going to replace.

Mr. BUCHANAN. How much for the land? About $100 an acre? Senator SPARKMAN. This is in Alabama. It is about $100 an acre. Mr. HUBER. What effect would the enactment of the Sparkman housing bill have on the housing situation?

Senator SPARKMAN. I think it would step it up considerably, and would reach this gap that Mr. Egan so well described, these marginal cases that cannot quite get in. This loan was made at Scottsboro, Ala., and it was a Scottsboro contractor that has promised to deliver the house at $3,300. That was the first loan made in the whole United States. I understand they are being swamped with applications from all over the rural counties.

Are there any further questions?

(No response.)

Senator SPARKMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Foley and Mr. Egan. This afternoon at 2 o'clock we will resume.

(Whereupon, at 11:55 a. m., the hearing was adjourned, to reconvene at 2 p. m.)

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TABLE 1.-Trends in income, number of minors, and rent-income ratio of families in urban continental Public Law 412 and PWA

developments

A. FAMILIES ADMITTED IN 1941

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