Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. Only two in the United States! Do you mean that in all the States you have only seen fit to make two of these trained men available to the War Manpower Commission? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Perhaps I have misunderstood you. I know at least a half dozen men who are actual supervisors over a number of employment offices. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. How many of your people have you transferred. There is no problem of veterans' placement. That problem does not exist. You do not have to persuade employers to take a percentage of veterans. Employers are glad to get all the veterans who can march through their gates. How many have you transferred to the War Manpower Commission? Tadlock has been assigned to the War Manpower Commission. Mr. HOLLENBECK. I will say that Tadlock is the only veterans' employment representative assigned temporarily as acting W. M. area supervisor. Others are dividing their time. They give part time to supervising, possibly, five or six offices in a State. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. You have 53 out of 54 people left on your pay roll. How many do you have in your veterans' placement agencies? Mr. HOLLENBECK. We have 52 veterans' employment representatives in the field and 52 stenographers. Mr. TARVER. Let me offer this suggestion. The estimated number of unemployed in the United States during this fiscal year, and for the next fiscal year, is approximately 1,000,000. Why they are unemployed is not a matter which has been thoroughly disclosed. There is necessity for maintaining employment services to be sure that people, not only veterans, are located in jobs for which they are particularly suited in the war effort. You have the same situation with the veterans. A veteran might be employed in a job for which he is not qualified and for which he is not best fitted. As to whether the service for the veterans should be consolidated with other services, that is a different question. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. That represents my point of view. Do you not have a great deal of work to do for the veterans who are employed in the way of getting them into positions for which they are better suited, where they can do a better job in the war program! Mr. HOLLENBECK. In a large number of our offices we found about 50 percent of our active files consisted of veterans who are employed at the present time but are looking for better jobs. We have that problem. For instance, a veteran located in North Dakota, and there is no industry in North Dakota, wishes to go else where. We have to have a clearance system so that this veteran, and others like him, may be employed in war industries. The war indus tries might be on the Pacific coast. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. Why not let those veterans stay on the farms in North Dakota? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Most of them do. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. What is the problem? Mr. HOLLENBECK. New York City, for example, is a surplus labor market. We have to find jobs outside of New York City for unemployed veterans there. Mr. HARE. Were you here yesterday when I read a letter to Governor McNutt, from a World War veteran, who said he had been working in a shipyard plant for 14 months and was called in last Monday morning and advised that he could not continue working for them unless he joined a labor union. Would you have anything to do with such a case, to assist him? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Our men could go to the officials of the labor union and see if they could work out something, so that permission would be given to this man to go to work. That has been done, even though the man was not a member of the union. We have occasionally persuaded union officials to allow nonunion veterans to work on union jobs. Mr. THOMAS. Maybe he did not want to join the union. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. You know the answer to that; the answer is "No." Will you give me an example of where a union has permitted veterans to work in closed shops? Mr. HOLLENBECK. I cannot give you the names of the veterans at this time. I can get them for you. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. How many such instances? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Over a period of years, probably 3 or 4. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. I would like to have one of these gentlemen analyze the $15 per diem basis a little further. Let us presume that most of these folks out in the States do travel. How much travel do they average per day? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Twelve to 13 days a month on an average. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. How many miles per day would a man average-not more than 50 miles? Mr. HOLLENBECK. I might say in regard to this group, that I believe their average expense per day is lower than the average of those who use the trains, because most of our men travel by automobile. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. That is what I am getting at. Do you think that 50 miles per day is a reasonable estimate? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Fifty to one hundred miles per day on the average. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. Does the $15 include mileage for automobiles? If so, at what rate? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Our average travel cost would be approximately $11.00 per day as it is often necessary for our men to remain in one place more than 1 day; 5 cents per mile is included in this travel cost. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. All right, we then have approximately $4 per day for mileage for their car. What about the other $11? We have $4 per day that we can reasonably ascribe to mileage-if these men are allowed $12 per day, and not $15, what is the rest of the money used for-meals and so on? Mr. HOLLENBECK. That is included in the per diem. Our $11 travel cost per day is based on an experience of nearly 10 years. Mr. ENGEL. How many miles a day will be traveled by the men who average 11 days of travel a month? 86811-43-pt. 3—11 Mr. HOLLENBECK. The men will average in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 miles per day for the number of days they are in the field. It will vary, of course, in some States, such as in Wyoming and Montana. Mr. ENGEL. Do you keep track of the number of miles these men travel and the amount per mile that they draw, or do you just give them the $15 or the $12? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Every month the travel vouchers of these men come in to Washington. They must be approved. Mr. TARVER. If a man does not require the $12 per day, you do not pay him that amount? Mr. HOLLENBECK. No. Mr. TARVER. You only pay him the per diem allowance? Mr. HOLLENBECK. $6 per day, plus 5 cents per mile, and the expense of the telephone calls. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. You are asking for $12 per day. This looks rather impractical to me. Do they put in for the full amount whether they use it or not? Mr. HOLLENBECK. They are allowed $6 per diem only when in official travel. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. I am not only speaking of this with reference to your small bureau. I think that many Government employees turn in for the full amount allowed per diem, whether they use it or not. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. I wish to conclude my questioning by making this comment: The $15 allowance, even the $12 allowance, seems a little bit steep to me for a per diem charge, when I remember the numerous days that I have been out on the road myself. I certainly got by with much less money than that, and that is figuring all expenses, too. It seems to me that the Government is far too generous in this particular item. Mr. TARVER. I think a point ought to be made clear here. This is only an estimate. No doubt there are many employees who will travel long distances, and who will require for this travel more than the $12 per diem. For example, Mr. Nickerson made a trip to Detroit. Certainly the travel expenses per day on that trip were more than the $6. in addition to the $6 per diem. This $12 figure is only an estimate as to the average amount per employee for travel, to be expended. In many cases less than that will be spent and, undoubtedly in many cases more will be spent. Is that correct? Mr. McKONE. That is correct. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. At one time or another have not a good many of your people done double duty-not only serving in vocational placement but in agricultural placement? Mr. HOLLENBECK. That is right. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. In a number of States would it not be possible to hold your organization together by combining such double duty-doing this other work? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Many of them have been farm supervisors. Many of them are now being used in connection with State direction of the employment service; many serve as special representatives for the physically handicapped. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. They are all trained employment people? Mr. HOLLENBECK. They are. Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. They would be very valuable. Mr. HOLLENBECK. When the men are doing this work for the employment service their traveling expenses are still charged against the Veterans' Employment Service. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. ANDERSON of New Mexico. Referring to these disabled veterans, with whom you work in the Naval Hospital; why must you do the screening when they know where they are going? As an example, if a man says he is going to an essential war industry or to a farm, why should you send him somewhere else? Mr. HOLLENBECK. It is much easier for the men to use the Employment Service as a channel through which to get a job than for them to write to the employers? Lockheed had something like 500 or 600 men write to them for jobs. They offered jobs to the men and only 50 of them showed up. They did not know what became of the others. Mr. NICKERSON. We would prefer to have these men go to more essential jobs. Mr. McKONE. They are entitled to their old job if they apply within 40 days from the time of discharge, if not they lose out. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. What proportion of the men working in your division are veterans? Mr. HOLLENBECK. All of our men are war veterans. The congressional act which created the Veterans' Employment Service decreed that only veterans of wars of the United States could be appointed in this service. Mr. H. CARL ANDERSEN. I am glad to hear that. Mr. HOLLENBECK. That is one of the qualifications-the men must be war veterans. PLACEMENTS OF DISABLED VETERANS Mr. HARE. Do you have any figures showing the number of placements of disabled veterans, in each State, during this past year? Mr. HOLLENBECK. The number of disabled veterans placed is included in the total of all veterans placed during the past year. The approximate number of placements of veterans for the past year is 220,000. Mr. HARE. Do you have this broken down by States? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Yes, sir. Mr. HARE. Would you furnish a table with that information for the record? Mr. HOLLENBECK. Yes, sir. (The matter referred to is as follows:) Placements of veterans, by major occupational groups, by State, January-December and October-December 1942 [Corrected to Feb. 24, 1943] 1 Computed only for States reporting 50 or more veteran placements in both periods. |