But if you do not hold this program together, I feel it is just going to blow away. Mr. CONWAY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond to Congressman Wydler. I actually chaired the Finance, Administration, and Intergovernmental Relations Policy Committee of the National League of Cities for the last 2 years before becoming the second vice president. At our annual convention just this past November, our steering committee did recommend State participation. As a matter of fact, the final resolution of the National League of Cities provided that States participate at the same level as before. Our taking no position as it relates to the States does not necessarily mean that we are not supporting the States participating in general revenue sharing. All of the interest groups that will appear before you are fighting to retain some semblance of the various program funds that has gone to them in the past. They are going to have to take their respective cuts. It is our feeling that the States, as you have suggested, have to make a conscious decision about what their priorities are. If general revenue sharing happens to be their number one priority, and they are willing to do as you suggest, to take some substantial cuts in various categorical aid programs and so forth, we have no problems with that. As a matter of fact, we think it makes sense to have a very close alliance with other units of government. The question is this. We cannot make their decisions for them. They will have to make their case. We are not against the States participating in general revenue sharing. I want that to be made very clear. As a matter of fact, the policy statement passed by the National League of Cities at our conference actually supported the States participating under the same arrangement as previously. But we are dealing with rapidly changing circumstances. I believe things have changed very drastically in the last 6 months in the United States. Mr. WYDLER. Thank you. Mr. WEISS. Mr. Chairman, let me say this. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Mr. Weiss, I am going to yield to you, but I announced at the beginning we were not going to have any questions or statements prior to the taking of the panel's testimony. Instead of going in at 3 p.m. today we are going in at 1 p.m. When I yielded to Mr. Wydler, I did not realize he would take as long as he did. I am going to have to yield to you now. Mr. WEISS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not going to take anywhere as long as Mr. Wydler did. Mr. WEISS. I just want to say, Mr. Chairman, that although the gentleman from New York, Mr. Wydler, and I have been united in our support of the general revenue-sharing program, both for the cities and for the States, just so the record be kept clear, I do not speak for the Republican or Democratic position. I speak for my own. position. I am going to have a very difficult time supporting the general revenue-sharing program if, in fact, it is postured as against the categorical programs. It seems to me that to cut off the right leg or the left leg does not do anybody very much good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Before going to the next witness on the list, I will ask our friend, Congressman Toby Moffett, to introduce one of our witnesses who will testify later. I recognize Mr. Moffett at this time. I saw you last night on television-was that in Connecticut or here? Mr. MOFFETT. It was here. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Go right ahead. Mr. MOFFETT. I see my colleague from Ohio over there wishing he had had at least one win before his candidate dropped out. Mr. BROWN. I had two losers. [Laughter.] Mr. MOFFETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I sense that you are attempting to move along. I think that is wise, and I will take just a moment to say that you do have with you today Mr. Ted Litwin who is the first selectman, the leader of Litchfield, Conn., which is not only the most beautiful town in Connecticut, but also the one in which I am honored and privileged to reside. Mr. Litwin is a farmer and a devoted public servant. I think you will find his testimony extremely helpful. I remember, Mr. Chairman, your telling me stories about what it used to be like in the Congress when you had time to visit those small communities in North Carolina to soak up the best of what they had to offer. I wish we were back to those days. I think a lot of us wish we were. Certainly if one were to visit Litchfield, one would find that it is a community that prides itself on self-reliance, frugality, conservation, and creativity. As I look at the general revenue-sharing program, despite my reservations about it from time to time, I cannot find a finer utilization of those moneys than has taken place in Litchfield, Conn., under the directorship and leadership of Mr. Litwin. If we are looking for a community that has used its funds wisely, efficiently, and prudently, and has made the most of the program, it is Litchfield. I hope that his testimony is helpful. I also want to be helpful as one member of the full committee to the product that emerges from this subcommittee. Mr. WYDLER. Could the gentleman tell me if first selectman means mavor? Mr. MOFFETT. Yes; it means that he is the boss. Mr. BROWN. What kind of farmer is he? Mr. MOFFETT. He is a dairy farmer. Mr. BROWN. Does he grow tobacco? I thought that might endear him to the chairman. Mr. MOFFETT. We do have tobacco in Connecticut, as the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Jones, is constantly reminding me. [Laughter.] Thank you. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Thank you very much for that fine introduction. I would like to say to Mr. Litwin that he is privileged to have a very able Member of Congress representing him here in Washington. We are delighted to have Toby here. I think he is one of the brighest young men to have come to Washington in recent years. He reflects credit not only upon himself, but upon the people he represents. Mr. MOFFETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Our next witness is the Honorable Douglas DeGood, the mayor of Toledo, Ohio, who is representing the U.S. Conference of Mayors. We will be pleased to hear your statement at this time. I might say that after all of you have testified we will have you all at the table as a panel for questioning. We are delighted to have you with us. I had the privilege of spending a good portion of my life in your great State, which is also the State of Congressman Brown. Mr. BROWN. My district. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Your district? Maybe you want to make a comment. Mr. BROWN. I am proud to have had you in my district. I am proud to be twice removed from Mayor DeGood. There is a moment, that is, one year in which I was getting around the State of Ohio for ulterior motives, and I spent so much time in Lucas County that I thought of not running for mayor but perhaps county commissioner. I wound up not running for that or anything else. I am glad to have you here and I think we have many mutual friends. Mr. FOUNTAIN. I spent several years at Wright-Patterson Air Field, and in Dayton. In fact, as a lawyer there, I had the unusual experience of appearing in the Federal court in Dayton, as military legal counsel representing a man by the name of Luther Goines who, while serving as a civilian guard at Patterson, within one of the buildings at Dayton where the U.S. section was, was standing guard when a young boy got off the elevator for the second or third time. This was a secret area, completely executive, and the boy was coming toward him, with several others behind him. He said: "I told you to get back and get on the elevator and go down." The boy continued and he reached in his holster, pulled his pistol and shot him right between the eyes, killing him, of course. It was quite a case. The young boy was a black boy, and Goines was from Kentucky. The trial took place there in the Federal court. It was an emotional situation, but to the surprise of everyone, your jury, based upon military law and the fact that this man was defending in a military way what he conceived to be Government property and his rights, the Ohio jury acquitted him. We had a police escort outside. I think they took him back to Kentucky and not to Wright-Patterson Field. That was quite an experience. Mr. BROWN. Mr. Chairman, I would like the record to show that nothing like that has occurred since I became Congressman. I would also like to tell Mayor DeGood that the person who runs my office, obviously not me, but my number one secretary's mother, resided, up until a couple of years ago when she died in her ninety's, on Euclid Avenue in the east end of Toledo. This is one of the garden spots of the world. I have a couple of lawyers working for me who graduated from the University of Toledo. So, while we are not related by blood, we, at least, have some association. We are delighted to see you here. Mr. DEGOOD. I am pleased to be here. Mr. BROWN. I hope I get a chance to ask him a couple of questions before I have to go. Mr. DEGOOD. You are correct in your perception that it is, indeed, one of the garden spots of the world. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Please proceed. STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS DeGOOD, MAYOR, TOLEDO, OHIO, REPRESENTING THE U.S. CONFERENCE OF MAYORS Mr. DEGOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to testify today on the renewal of general revenue sharing, a program of critical importance to the fiscal, economic, and social health of the Nation's cities. The U.S. Conference of Mayors has long been on record in support of the revenue-sharing program, with annual incremental increases to compensate for inflation. Our policy also specifically supports the continuation of the onethird State share, a total of $2.3 billion, since much of this total is passed through to local governments. The general revenue-sharing program is especially important in view of the acute fiscal crisis confronting many cities around the country. In a survey conducted last week by the U.S. Conference of Mayors of 100 large cities, 62 percent described fiscal difficulties and reported that it was necessary for them to make budget adjustments to cut services, lay off city employees, impose hiring freezes and raise taxesin their current fiscal year budgets in order to make ends meet. An additional 17 percent expect fiscal year 1981 budget difficulties. A copy of the Conference of Mayors' survey is attached to my remarks and I respect fully request that it be incorporated into the record of today's proceedings. Mr. FOUNTAIN. Without objection, so ordered. [The material follows:1 |